duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Discuss comparisons of various school choices and the various metrics that inform them, including rankings, student life, location, etc.
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DankHill
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by DankHill » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:07 pm

64Fl wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:39 pm
icechicken wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:21 pm
64Fl wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:11 pm
true southerners [...] Florida
lol

otherwise great post
I didn't know any other way to describe people who'd prefer the FL market lol.
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DankHill
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by DankHill » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:11 pm

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64Fl
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by 64Fl » Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:56 pm

DankHill wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:11 pm
I guess my trepidation in terms of choosing Duke derives from my aversion to NYC biglaw. I get the sense that UVA simply does better in terms of placement in non-NYC biglaw. Clearly, there's some (although maybe not a huge) edge for UVA over Duke in terms of DC. I also get the sense (per the existence of groups like West Coast Wahoos and Lone Star Law) that UVA does well in placing its grads into CA/TX.

If I'm off-base here, please let me know. I would hate to waste 20-35K for basically the same outcomes.
I think you're a little off base here.

Texas:
  • UVA: 9.9%
  • Duke: 10.7%
California
  • UVA: 6.0%
  • Duke: 6.0%
Really think Duke captures 95% of the non-NYC biglaw outcomes that UVA offers for a considerable discount. FWIW, I didn't attend Duke or UVA, so I have no alma mater horse in this race.

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waldorf
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by waldorf » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:05 pm

Would probably go to Duke. But UVA is cool too.

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DankHill
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by DankHill » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:15 pm

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DankHill
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by DankHill » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:17 pm

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waldorf
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by waldorf » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:31 pm

DankHill wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:17 pm
waldorf wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:05 pm
Would probably go to Duke. But UVA is cool too.
Don't mean to press (and feel free to ignore this), but could you provide a basis for this judgment?
It’s the same cost of attendance for you, and they’re basically interchangeable schools in my experience. My friends at Duke all had a great time in law school. But my friends at UVA did as well so 🤷🏼‍♀️

Either school for $110k is a good deal.

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DankHill
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by DankHill » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:42 pm

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waldorf
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by waldorf » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:45 pm

DankHill wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:42 pm
waldorf wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:31 pm
DankHill wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:17 pm
waldorf wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:05 pm
Would probably go to Duke. But UVA is cool too.
Don't mean to press (and feel free to ignore this), but could you provide a basis for this judgment?
It’s the same cost of attendance for you, and they’re basically interchangeable schools in my experience. My friends at Duke all had a great time in law school. But my friends at UVA did as well so 🤷🏼‍♀️

Either school for $110k is a good deal.
Sorry, should have updated the original post. Duke recently came back in with a higher scholarship offer. COA will now be in the range of 75-90K
Oh I would definitely go to Duke then. 75k is hardly anything.

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64Fl
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by 64Fl » Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:54 pm

DankHill wrote:
Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:15 pm
Thank you for your input. Earlier, you alluded to the ability to pay off 70K in loans in one year. Is that really possible? I honestly feel like this is something that 0Ls say all the time but can never follow through with b/c of the sacrifices involved, so it was interesting to hear it from someone more senior.
I'm on track to pay back $85,000 my first twelve months in practice (already knocked out $43,000) while maxing out my 401k, and I don't live like a monk. I basically went on smartasset and typed in $50,000/yr. for Chicago. That gave me $39k, and I decided that's what I'll live on for the year with every other penny going towards my loans. After maxing out my 401k, $190,000 is $118,859. Less $39k, and that's $80k. I also threw in a good chunk of my stub year tax refund for an additional $5k. If you can't survive off $39k as a single person (outside of the Bay/NYC), I think you're doing something wrong. You won't live glamorously, but you can get a fine 1 bedroom in a good part of town in DC, eat out at reasonably priced restaurants, and buy a few things. I realize D.C. is more expensive than Chicago, so I gave you some more breathing room and went with $70k. Where people run into problems paying back their loans quickly is with a few things: (1) buying an expensive vehicle (no, you should not buy a $40,000 Tesla, even if you want to (looking at myself here)), (2) spending way too much on apartments (I know someone in my class who is now paying $3,000/mo. for rent, which they can totally swing, but it also puts them back $15,000/yr. compared to me), and (3) upgrading their lifestyle in terms of general consumption ($3000 vacations, $500 concert tickets, $100 clothes, $80 meals, and $30 wine add up).

ETA: It also helps that I'm a simple man who is terrified of his own debt.

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DankHill
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by DankHill » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:01 am

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Slytherpuff
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by Slytherpuff » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:07 am

I think $60-65k is more realistic for your first year in big law if you're in DC (if you're in NY, I'd say $60k). $70k is really pushing it unless you have roommates and plan to never eat out. 64Fl is not fully factoring in the huge difference in cost of living between Chicago and DC.

And at some point you might want to check out some of the loan/finance threads in the Lounge, since there are few different schools of thought when it comes to paying off loans. I'm team "throw all my money at student loans" (I'll have mine paid off this fall after four years) and it sounds like 64Fl is too, but others have refinanced or are doing REPAYE in order to start building some wealth/savings while in big law.

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64Fl
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by 64Fl » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:24 am

100% defer to Slyther on the COL differences. My time in DC is solely from visits and apartments.com shopping while I considered starting there, so my cost expectations are more theoretical. Slyther has actually rented in both markets. Even if you can only do $60k, you'll knock your debt out in 1.5ish years max if you're diligent.

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DankHill
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by DankHill » Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:32 am

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pancakes3
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by pancakes3 » Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:04 am

UVa has a statistically significant, if marginal, benefit for placing into DC, but with a 190k salary and an aggressive debt-payment plan, the difference between paying down your debt in 2 years v. 1 year 6 months is also marginal.

I also think the margin isn't as narrow as 21/14%. Maybe that's what it was in the latest ABA reports, but historically, i think it's closer to 20/10.

With that being said, i don't think there's a wrong answer here. Just what you're personally comfortable with.

DC also has a high COL for sure, especially rent, but unlike NYC/SF, there are at least options to live in cheaper, crappier housing. Sure it's a bad look to be making 190k and living in a $1300/mo english basement with a roommate, or living out in Silver Spring, Fort Totten, but at least the option is there; you don't have to live in a $2k+ apt.

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Serett
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by Serett » Sat Apr 10, 2021 3:03 am

DankHill wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:57 pm
heythatslife wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:55 pm
Consensus is Charlotte hours are lower than NYC. Keep in mind 1900-2000 is just a common threshold to be eligible for bonus at many NY firms, most work beyond it. It’s not like you can declare yourself done for the year and stop working when you hit 2000 in August.

is charlotte achievable from duke or uva without ties?
Off the top of my head, I know a pair of non-Carolinians who found (PI/gov't) work in the Research Triangle region and one who got Charlotte biglaw. Could be more I'm forgetting or unaware of, and no clue how many people might have had similar options but preferred going to another market. From my own experience, I'd say it's possible but not directly out of law school, and I personally got zero traction trying (not to imply I tried hard, just OCI and one non-OCI app, and my grades were middling). That said, I'd be pretty confident about my ability to lateral there now if I were so inclined, granted I'm in the right practice area for Charlotte (finance). I've only half-read this topic, but if you have a home market like California or something that you'd be fine going to, I wouldn't be worried about Duke placing there. My impression from my class is that people from there who wanted to return there found jobs there, both at firms and for government (public defender, district attorney's offices) work. I similarly got where I wanted to be in my Midwest home market. My normal advice with cost of attendance that similar and job prospects that similar between options would be to visit each school/area and consider where you'll be happier spending three years. That'll be more important, in general and maybe also to your performance in law school and thus prospects anyway, than trying to split hairs over 1-2 theoretical percentage chances of placing somewhere or what'll be two months' after-tax salary by the time you're a third year in biglaw (or Monopoly PAYE money in PI/gov't). Pandemic complicates visiting a bit, but I'd still say that should be the basis for the decision here if at all feasible.

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DankHill
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by DankHill » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:43 am

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Barry
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by Barry » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:56 am

WA-HOO-WA!!!

Congratulations 😀

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Slytherpuff
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by Slytherpuff » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:09 pm

Excellent news, congrats DankHill!

You'll have to join us for a DC meet-up in 2022ish (if COVID ever ends) :lol:

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DankHill
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by DankHill » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:18 pm

Slytherpuff wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:09 pm
Excellent news, congrats DankHill!

You'll have to join us for a DC meet-up in 2022ish (if COVID ever ends) :lol:
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DankHill
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by DankHill » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:19 pm

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Story
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by Story » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:20 pm

Congratulations! Great city, great school.

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waldorf
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by waldorf » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:21 pm

UVA for $110k is an excellent outcome (and I say this as someone who was EXTREMELY debt averse when choosing a law school). Congrats!

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Barry
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by Barry » Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:55 pm

DankHill wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:19 pm
Barry wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:56 am
WA-HOO-WA!!!

Congratulations 😀
Thanks! Will you still be there next fall?
I will, and it'll be nice to finally be in person! Feel free to hit me up anytime, I doubt I'll have an intense 3LOL schedule :D

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Danger Zone
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Re: duke, uva, cornell, or retake

Post by Danger Zone » Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:11 pm

Congrats!

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