Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Discuss comparisons of various school choices and the various metrics that inform them, including rankings, student life, location, etc.
cookiemonster
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by cookiemonster » Sat Nov 28, 2020 6:59 pm

Story wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:51 pm
How set are you on your goals? Any chance they will change? Do you want to keep your options open?

Let us know once you get your real options after applying.
Do want to keep my options open just in case. As of now I’m set on transactional big law, but from what I’ve heard it’s just bad news. So I really won’t know if it’s not something I want to do until I start I guess. I’ve worked 1.5k hours a year in retail + school for the past 3 years. Of course that’s retail and not law, but I feel like I’m down for the grind. Again, I guess I won’t know till I start, but I’ve done that many hours + school for minimum wage pay, if it’s getting increased to a couple hundred thousand I feel like I’ll push through.

When I finish sending my apps out and start hearing back I’ll let everyone here know tho, my main goal is still full ride somewhere. Thank you all for your help.

Story
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by Story » Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:14 pm

Full ride at CCN would probably give you the most options. Good school, less financial debt, etc.

What are your stats, if you don’t mind telling?

This whole thread may be pointless if your stats aren’t there.

cookiemonster
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by cookiemonster » Sun Nov 29, 2020 12:36 am

Story wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 11:14 pm
Full ride at CCN would probably give you the most options. Good school, less financial debt, etc.

What are your stats, if you don’t mind telling?

This whole thread may be pointless if your stats aren’t there.
175+/3.9x. Good stats, scholarship stats I think but the LSAC volume numbers are kinda intimidating. Again guess we’ll have to wait and see, but I’ll update you all when the offers come in.

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Slytherpuff
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by Slytherpuff » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:48 pm

I'd aim for whichever school in the T13 gives you a full ride, with those stats. That big law paycheck is way nicer if you don't have debt to worry about. You don't need HYS for that - CCN would be excellent outcomes.

cookiemonster
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by cookiemonster » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:06 am

Slytherpuff wrote:
Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:48 pm
I'd aim for whichever school in the T13 gives you a full ride, with those stats. That big law paycheck is way nicer if you don't have debt to worry about. You don't need HYS for that - CCN would be excellent outcomes.
I fully agree. Curious though, how low in the T13 until it becomes better to just take HYS over the full ride? Or is that just never the case?

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UVA2B
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by UVA2B » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:23 am

Never for NYC transactional work.

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icechicken
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by icechicken » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:27 am

UVA2B wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:23 am
Never for NYC transactional work.
Agreed. NYC transactional biglaw is the reason why it's coherent to talk about the "T13" grouping in the first place. They're all great for it.

cookiemonster
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by cookiemonster » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:44 am

icechicken wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:27 am
UVA2B wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:23 am
Never for NYC transactional work.
Agreed. NYC transactional biglaw is the reason why it's coherent to talk about the "T13" grouping in the first place. They're all great for it.
Oh wow, very cool. In some of the lower schools, though, they do class rankings and record GPAs. If one doesn't know if they'll be able to land in a good class position, could this impact the view of a T4-T13 vs HYS?

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Stranger
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by Stranger » Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:49 am

icechicken wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:27 am
UVA2B wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:23 am
Never for NYC transactional work.
Agreed. NYC transactional biglaw is the reason why it's coherent to talk about the "T13" grouping in the first place. They're all great for it.
Even the weakest of them (Berkeley and Yale) in terms of actual biglaw placement make up for it in other areas (clerkships, unicorn-y PI jobs, etc.) that the strongest outside the T13 group (Georgetown, Vanderbilt) don't really match. Vanderbilt does well when comparing raw biglaw+clerkships, but gets a lot of their biglaw placement by filling regional posts of big firms. Georgetown doesn't consistently hit the same numbers as even the "low" end of the T13, though they do well in government placement (but not well enough to account for the difference in biglaw/clerkship placement, especially since the low end of the T13 in those fields is also crushing it for government/PI jobs). Georgetown and Vanderbilt are fine schools, but not really in the same league as the T13 (and if we extend the league metaphor, HYS are the perennial championship contenders out of that league, CCN are perennial top programs, and the rest of the T13 are clearly better than even the best of other leagues, even if a great year for Vandy/GULC is better than a down year in the lower reaches of the T13).

The distinction of the T13 is that a low-median or even below-median student at those schools can crack NYC transactional biglaw while a student at a "tier 1" school can be sweating out 3L without a job lined up despite having the grades to potentially graduate with high honors. The distinction of HYS is that they really do open up unicorn jobs. There's no need to compare within HYS for which is "better" for NYC transactional biglaw--that's the sort of thinking you have to do when looking at programs outside the T13.

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Nony
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by Nony » Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:12 pm

cookiemonster wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:44 am
icechicken wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:27 am
UVA2B wrote:
Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:23 am
Never for NYC transactional work.
Agreed. NYC transactional biglaw is the reason why it's coherent to talk about the "T13" grouping in the first place. They're all great for it.
Oh wow, very cool. In some of the lower schools, though, they do class rankings and record GPAs. If one doesn't know if they'll be able to land in a good class position, could this impact the view of a T4-T13 vs HYS?
Then go to schools that aren’t HYS and don’t do class ranks/record GPAs, if they cost less than HYS. But frankly most employers who regularly hire from the T14 know how to assess transcripts from those schools and compare applicants.

gregoriomartinon
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by gregoriomartinon » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:36 pm

Just out of curiosity, posters kept emphasizing the "transactional" aspect of OPs goals, but would this be different if they were talking about litigation?

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Nony
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by Nony » Tue Dec 22, 2020 7:47 pm

Traditional biglaw litigation, not really. If you want litigation ultimately to go into something more unicorn-like, like fancy government work or academia, maybe. But if you want to work in a big firm I don’t think there’s anything to choose between the two. Again, whichever is cheaper.

(In case I didn’t make it clear earlier in the thread this is not something I have personal experience with, of course.)

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UVA2B
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by UVA2B » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:54 pm

The reason posters pointed to transactional NYC work is because that’s basically the Target of T14 graduate hiring. There’s a barrier to entry, but it’s not as hard as it might seem.

As Nony covered, there is a difference between NYC Biglaw lit and the other, more finite and highly discerning areas of lit in boutiques that require highly desirable clerkships prior to entry. It’s not exactly that NYC Biglaw lit is different from NYC Biglaw transactional work, it’s that there are more opportunities for highly specialized litigation opportunities early on compared to general NYC transactional work.

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pneumonia
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Re: Harvard vs. Yale NY Big Law

Post by pneumonia » Tue Dec 22, 2020 10:56 pm

Yale is the easy choice if you're interested in clerking, and especially if you're interested in actually doing appellate work at a firm.

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