Chances of a T14?

General admissions strategy questions, what are my chances, discussion of specific application materials like financial aid and scholarships.
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CopToLaw
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Chances of a T14?

Post by CopToLaw » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:00 pm

Hello all,

Sorry in advance, I'm new to this forum and the idea of seriously considering a change and attending law school. I was wondering what you think my chances would be of attending a relatively prestigious law school that will maximize my chances at future employment upon graduation?

I attended UF in Florida, got a degree in finance with only a 3.16 GPA.
Currently in a dual masters program at UCF in Florida with a 3.85 GPA (Hoping it won't dip any lower then that) with an expected graduation within a year.
I also have significant work experience as a law enforcement officer for the last 3 years.

My main question is will my work experience plus my graduate GPA overshadow my low undergraduate GPA pending a good LSAT score?

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UVA2B
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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by UVA2B » Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:28 pm

With the right LSAT, you'll definitely have options in the T14. Shoot for 170+, and good luck!

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Platopus
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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by Platopus » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:09 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:28 pm
With the right LSAT, you'll definitely have options in the T14. Shoot for 170+, and good luck!
I think you are probably being a bit optimistic here. I dont disagree with you that the T14 isnt out of the question, but itll be a real uphill battle with a 3.16 GPA. I think its appropriate to temper expectations for an extreme splitter.


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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by UVA2B » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:20 pm

Platopus wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:09 pm
UVA2B wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 1:28 pm
With the right LSAT, you'll definitely have options in the T14. Shoot for 170+, and good luck!
I think you are probably being a bit optimistic here. I dont disagree with you that the T14 isnt out of the question, but itll be a real uphill battle with a 3.16 GPA. I think its appropriate to temper expectations for an extreme splitter.


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Maybe it’s a bit “optimistic” because it’s unpredictable where an acceptance may come from, but with a 170+, 3.0-3.4 (to account for being over 3.0 and below all 25ths, which I think more accurately suggests the chance of acceptance at any given T14, but that’s obviously a point of debate whether a 3.25 materially differs from a 3.4 to adcoms) along with at least nominally decent softs since the OP is not a KJD without other interesting narratives, I would be surprised if they weren’t looking at one T14 acceptance if they round out their applications thoughtfully. What school that happens at will depend on how well the OP does with the rest of their application along with the particular needs of the given schools, and it’s certainly possible striking out could happen. But what those stats tell me is that the OP needs to be aiming for a 170+ LSAT to have a relatively decent shot at a T14, which is all I was going for in wishing them luck in shooting for a 170.

And this says nothing about whether a T14 will be the right choice for the OP, but if nothing else, the OP should be encouraged to shoot for a high LSAT so their best options are on the table.

E: also, I was treating T14 as the chance of a single acceptance, although I realize now that the way I worded it was there would be multiple acceptances. I just meant acceptances could come from several schools, while hopefully understanding other schools will be a no-go. Sorry for glossing over the nuance of that point originally.

CopToLaw
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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by CopToLaw » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:01 pm

So I’m assuming my grad school GPA wouldn’t factor in at all the way y’all are making it sound?

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Slippin’ Jimmy
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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by Slippin’ Jimmy » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:18 pm

CopToLaw wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:01 pm
So I’m assuming my grad school GPA wouldn’t factor in at all the way y’all are making it sound?
Grad school GPA doesn't really matter much unless its uncharacteristically low for your program, but having the degree itself does help as a soft factor.

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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by Platopus » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:35 pm

CopToLaw wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:01 pm
So I’m assuming my grad school GPA wouldn’t factor in at all the way y’all are making it sound?
So basically US News and World Report (USNWR) only considers your LSAC GPA in their formula for rankings. Your LSAC GPA only consists of your undergrad work. Thus, schools really only care about UGPA, since that is the only thing that factors into the rankings. Moreover, most grad programs award high grades, so its less indicative of academic success; thus, poor grades are a redflag, but good grades arent given much weight. On the whole though, having a masters is a net positive, so in your case it actually does help, just not much.

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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by Stranger » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:39 pm

CopToLaw wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:01 pm
So I’m assuming my grad school GPA wouldn’t factor in at all the way y’all are making it sound?
It can show academic improvement, so while it won't let you punch much above your GPA, it makes you a preferable candidate to someone with a similar set of numbers but no further degree. There are reasons that given schools admit some splitters and not others, and this can sometimes be one.

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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by CopToLaw » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:19 pm

I also forgot to mention I only went to UF my last two years after receiving an associates degree from my local state college when I was in high school (dual enrollment program). I actually graduated from there magna cum laude with a 3.87. Also, my GPA dropped so low at UF because of one semester when I thought I wanted to be an accounting major at one of the top 10 public accounting programs in the country (quickly learned it was not for me) and had one semester of straight Cs seriously hurting my GPA.

With those things considered would 1. my LSAC GPA be higher because my undergraduate GPA would include both my local state college GPA (3.87) and UF (3.16)? and 2. would that one bad semester at the beginning of my time at UF be seen as an anomaly to admissions at most schools and considered or would it be irrelevant?

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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by UVA2B » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:23 pm

If the credits you got at the state college contributed to your bachelors at UF, then yes that is a factor LSAC will factor in calculating your GPA. You should take both transcripts and calculate your LSAC GPA to see where you stand.

That said, nothing else changes: shoot for 170+ on the LSAT and set yourself up for the application and negotiation process.

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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by Stranger » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:47 pm

That difference in GPA could be huge. Yes, they will count every college you attended before your first bachelor's degree. I don't know the precise number of credits you got from each school, but let's take a look at the 3.4-3.6 (if the credits were equal you're around a 3.5) range with a 170+:

Image

That's significantly better. It's also strong reinforcement of what everyone above is saying: shoot for 170+.

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Platopus
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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by Platopus » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:32 pm

Stranger wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:47 pm
That difference in GPA could be huge.
+1 to this. An LSAC GPA of 3.4-3.5 would make a world of difference. You’ll still need to crack a 170, but doing so makes the T14 much more reasonable.

CopToLaw
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Re: Chances of a T14?

Post by CopToLaw » Sat Sep 29, 2018 4:34 pm

According to an online LSAC calculator I'm right around a 3.53 which is refreshing.

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