T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT

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Dannerz
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T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT

Post by Dannerz » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:44 am

I retook the LSAT for the second time yesterday but I'm not confident at all. If anything, I think I scored worse than my initial 162. Reading comprehension kicked me in the butt and I realized too late I made a crucial mistake on one of the LG games.

So these are my prospects. I might give it one last go in January (international) but I'm going to shoot out some applications this month because I need to know where I stand and, given how this retake went, I'm not banking on a significant increase. Although I'm going to do my best! :D

As of now, what are my chances like with schools in the T20s and T30s? I get mixed responses wherever I look so I hope someone can help me here. I'm looking at Boston College, George Washington, Washington & Lee. But I'm really not picky and tuition thankfully isn't a huge issue. Also not looking into going into Big Law. I have a strong inclination towards PI. I'm also eyeballing William & Mary, University of Washington and Wake.

Someone pleaaase tell me that it's not a lost cause. I need the hard truth but also some reassurance.

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Stranger
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Re: T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT

Post by Stranger » Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:06 pm

I'm not sure a 162 is gonna be enough in that range. If the spreadsheet Spivey has is correct, W&L went up to a 163 median with this last class, and University of Washington has maintained that. Wake and W&M are at 162. GWU was at 165 last year, and I have no reason to believe they dropped. BC is up to 164. I can't paint you a very rosy picture with a 162 and a GPA below folks' 25ths. I hope your score comes back better than you think it will.

You might get into one of these schools, but the prospects of $$ are slim to none unless you're a URM. You could always look a little lower, but you'll need to do that very carefully.

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LaLaLaw
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Re: T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT

Post by LaLaLaw » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:28 pm

You say you aren’t interested in biglaw. What type of law are you interested in?

Dannerz
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Re: T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT

Post by Dannerz » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:03 am

Stranger wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:06 pm
I'm not sure a 162 is gonna be enough in that range. If the spreadsheet Spivey has is correct, W&L went up to a 163 median with this last class, and University of Washington has maintained that. Wake and W&M are at 162. GWU was at 165 last year, and I have no reason to believe they dropped. BC is up to 164. I can't paint you a very rosy picture with a 162 and a GPA below folks' 25ths. I hope your score comes back better than you think it will.

You might get into one of these schools, but the prospects of $$ are slim to none unless you're a URM. You could always look a little lower, but you'll need to do that very carefully.
Thank you so much for the detailed answer! I hope so too. I'm going to give the LSAT one last shot next month in the States so hopefully I can raise it at least a couple points. If not, yikes.

One thing has been confusing me and I hope you don't mind clarifying this for me. Median means the middle, doesn't it? So if a school's median is 163, wouldn't that mean they've taken in scores below that number?

Dannerz
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Re: T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT

Post by Dannerz » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:05 am

LaLaLaw wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:28 pm
You say you aren’t interested in biglaw. What type of law are you interested in?
I'd like to pursue public interest. :D I haven't really crafted out a concrete plan or anything, though. I think criminal, refugee, family and environmental law are also fields I'd consider. But right now, I'm just trying to cover the fundamental question, which is where can I even go to pursue these any of these things successfully.

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Stranger
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Re: T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT

Post by Stranger » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:24 am

Dannerz wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:03 am
Stranger wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:06 pm
I'm not sure a 162 is gonna be enough in that range. If the spreadsheet Spivey has is correct, W&L went up to a 163 median with this last class, and University of Washington has maintained that. Wake and W&M are at 162. GWU was at 165 last year, and I have no reason to believe they dropped. BC is up to 164. I can't paint you a very rosy picture with a 162 and a GPA below folks' 25ths. I hope your score comes back better than you think it will.

You might get into one of these schools, but the prospects of $$ are slim to none unless you're a URM. You could always look a little lower, but you'll need to do that very carefully.
Thank you so much for the detailed answer! I hope so too. I'm going to give the LSAT one last shot next month in the States so hopefully I can raise it at least a couple points. If not, yikes.

One thing has been confusing me and I hope you don't mind clarifying this for me. Median means the middle, doesn't it? So if a school's median is 163, wouldn't that mean they've taken in scores below that number?
Yes, they have taken in folks below the median score. But they're almost all above, or at least very close to, the other median stat. A lot of schools wind up with a hard L shape along the medians. Let's use W&L for an example, since I'm attending that particular school and the median is the 163 you used as your example.

http://wl.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1718

If you haven't explored LSN yet, welcome to a valuable resource. The medians appear rather obviously in the graph, and very few people get accepted below both of them. Of the two on that graph, one of them claims to have also been accepted at NYU and Vanderbilt with a 161/3.5, so color me skeptical, and the other is a URM, which would be the only thing to make me believe the first account.

The schools want to get some benefit from accepting you. Sometimes, that's a full price tuition, but usually, it's boosting a median.

Dannerz
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Re: T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT

Post by Dannerz » Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:51 am

Stranger wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:24 am
Dannerz wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 2:03 am
Stranger wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:06 pm
I'm not sure a 162 is gonna be enough in that range. If the spreadsheet Spivey has is correct, W&L went up to a 163 median with this last class, and University of Washington has maintained that. Wake and W&M are at 162. GWU was at 165 last year, and I have no reason to believe they dropped. BC is up to 164. I can't paint you a very rosy picture with a 162 and a GPA below folks' 25ths. I hope your score comes back better than you think it will.

You might get into one of these schools, but the prospects of $$ are slim to none unless you're a URM. You could always look a little lower, but you'll need to do that very carefully.
Thank you so much for the detailed answer! I hope so too. I'm going to give the LSAT one last shot next month in the States so hopefully I can raise it at least a couple points. If not, yikes.

One thing has been confusing me and I hope you don't mind clarifying this for me. Median means the middle, doesn't it? So if a school's median is 163, wouldn't that mean they've taken in scores below that number?
Yes, they have taken in folks below the median score. But they're almost all above, or at least very close to, the other median stat. A lot of schools wind up with a hard L shape along the medians. Let's use W&L for an example, since I'm attending that particular school and the median is the 163 you used as your example.

http://wl.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1718

If you haven't explored LSN yet, welcome to a valuable resource. The medians appear rather obviously in the graph, and very few people get accepted below both of them. Of the two on that graph, one of them claims to have also been accepted at NYU and Vanderbilt with a 161/3.5, so color me skeptical, and the other is a URM, which would be the only thing to make me believe the first account.

The schools want to get some benefit from accepting you. Sometimes, that's a full price tuition, but usually, it's boosting a median.
The link is very helpful, thank you.

This is going to be a really tough cycle. I've jotted down my reach, maybe and definitely schools. But even my maybe schools, like the T20s and (largely) T30s, are beginning to daunt me. :oops: I was so happy when I got my first score and now it seems like the doors I thought it opened might have slid right back shut.

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LaLaLaw
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Re: T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT

Post by LaLaLaw » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:42 am

So first, all is not lost. You can definitely get into those schools, but realize that a retake of the lsat may be the smartest move (even beyond just the next January retake). Unfortunately your gpa is doing you no favors, so that just means you really have to take all the shots at LSAT that you can. I know it sucks, but it really is short term pain for long term gain.

If you do decide to go to a T20 or T30 or lower school, I’d really advise you to have a more concrete plan about what type of law you’re interested in. You don’t say whether you have work experience, but I’d advise you to work in some legal field if you can.

Also, the schools you’re interested in are very geographically diverse. If you go to a non-T14 school, you may be stuck in that geographic area and not be able to get a job elsewhere. I’d also think about where in the US you want to practice and would be happy spending your time.

Dannerz
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Re: T20s with a 3.1 GPA 162 LSAT

Post by Dannerz » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:02 am

LaLaLaw wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:42 am
So first, all is not lost. You can definitely get into those schools, but realize that a retake of the lsat may be the smartest move (even beyond just the next January retake). Unfortunately your gpa is doing you no favors, so that just means you really have to take all the shots at LSAT that you can. I know it sucks, but it really is short term pain for long term gain.

If you do decide to go to a T20 or T30 or lower school, I’d really advise you to have a more concrete plan about what type of law you’re interested in. You don’t say whether you have work experience, but I’d advise you to work in some legal field if you can.

Also, the schools you’re interested in are very geographically diverse. If you go to a non-T14 school, you may be stuck in that geographic area and not be able to get a job elsewhere. I’d also think about where in the US you want to practice and would be happy spending your time.
Studying for my third retake as we speak! :lol: Fingers crossed for that.

That's reassuring. I was apprehensive about posting here after perusing some older threads on TLS, which were full of discouraging answers, to say the least. So I really appreciate the response I've gotten here! I think I'll apply to some safety schools and some T30s like Wake and W&M with my current stats. Maybe even Washington & Lee or Boston College? Maybe..! I'm still wondering if it's a good idea or not.

Then I'll wait for my third retake next month and if I (hopefully!!) score higher, I'll apply to some tougher schools to get into like Notre Dame and Boston University. If I'm the luckiest test taker in the world that day, maybe even Georgetown.

In the meantime, I'll take your advice and definitely think long and hard about what kind of law I want to pursue, and where, if I'm limited to non-T14s.

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