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Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Join in the wild mass guessing about the odds of your numbers getting you into a particular school.
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BlendedUnicorn
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by BlendedUnicorn »

apparently the french foreign legion is generally a miserable experience
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Stranger »

What can I say other than that I was very foolish at 16?
curiousstudent1
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by curiousstudent1 »

Stranger wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 10:31 pm
curiousstudent1 wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:35 pm
Stranger wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:24 am
Nony wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:55 am What does degrading the prestige of your undergrad mean?

How are you so interested in law if you have almost a BS and MS in computer science - why aren’t you going to pursue that?
Seriously. First, you don't owe your undergrad a thing, let alone protecting their prestige at the potential cost of several hundred thousand dollars. Also, Stanford University's prestige wouldn't be degraded an ounce even if you went to a TTT. Ignoring other top tier law schools (especially the ones that are reliable biglaw factories) would be a serious mistake. If nothing else, trying your luck at getting a Ruby/Hamilton/etc. is worth applying to more than just Yale and Harvard.


Is your goal really politics instead of law? Are you aiming for impact lit or bust? Legal academia? You really haven't given any discernable reason for limiting yourself so much.
Yeah I meant not hurting my prestige (going from Stanford to like a Berkeley law would be a terrible look). As for pay, my father has guaranteed that he can cover all college costs - he made quite a lot of money (hence my high standard for comp) so money is not an issue. To be frank I don't know what Ruby or Hamilton are... I'm still refining my goal but I think I want to do MBA/JD, do a couple startups, become involved politically. Not interested in academia. I also am not really losing out on much - I skipped a couple grades in elementary and so if I were to graduate from YLS, I'll be the same age as seniors in undergrad. Thank you for the advice though, I'm going to think more about where I want to take my JD.
When we talk about "Ruby" on this site, we're talking about the Rubenstein scholarship at Chicago, which includes a full ride and a stipend toward cost of living. It also tends to include a lot of mentorship and faculty support--they really want to make sure the folks they give that sort of scholarship to land in their careers of choice. It's frankly a better outcome than Yale for most career goals, and yours don't sound like the things Yale maintains a leg up in. The Hamilton, at Columbia, isn't quite as good, since it doesn't include the stipend, but if money's not really a concern for you, it would still be a fantastic outcome. If your dad's willing to invest in your education like that, you might as well negotiate a bit with him and see if he's willing to set aside what he'll save by you taking a full ride at Chicago/Columbia/NYU/Penn to invest in your eventual startup.

If you're considering a dual JD/MBA, btw, Chicago and Penn need to be on your radar. Probably Northwestern and Stanford, too. Gotta consider the quality of your MBA program along with your JD program, after all.

But the biggest concern for me is your age. Legal hiring can be tough for someone who's markedly younger than the average law student, and real world work experience if an asset in legal hiring (and in understanding your clients, sometimes). It's something of a mantra on here that it's typically better to work for a few years before law school, and more can help in terms of success in law school--all of the folks in my law school class who were over 30 when we started graduated with honors. Seriously consider getting out for a few years to gain some experience in a real job. You can gain some of the benefits of waiting without being any older than your K-JD classmates at graduation.
Thank you for the clarification! To my understanding, school's only include merit scholarships because they aren't top-tier (at least in my experience with undergrad admissions). As for money, 300-400k would not detract from him investing into my eventual startup. The trust that is set up allocates a similar amount per month, so 300-400k is not my main concern. What I really want is a top tier pedigree. Yes, for a MBA/JD I will probably only apply to Stanford and Harvard.
Your point about legal hiring is actually quite eye-opening. I might consider working for my father's firm then for a few years (would a PE investing gig look good for employers, or should I shadow a lawyer instead or something?). Otherwise, I think I might be okay with not going into law but doing something tangentially related like activist investing. Thank you for the advice, I'm going to investigate what I need.
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by curiousstudent1 »

Nony wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:43 am The biggest concern for me is that you think going anywhere other than Harvard or Yale is beneath you. Going from Stanford to Berkeley would not be a terrible look and that you think so is a problem. And if you would only do law school if you get into Harvard or Yale, it doesn’t sound like you’re actually seriously interested in law, you’re just interested in collecting gold stars. The main problem with organizing your life around gold stars is that eventually you run out of stars, and then you don’t actually know what you want to do with yourself because you’ve been living by other people’s judgment.

This is despite the fact that I think you probably have a decent chance at Harvard - Yale is just a black box - but that’s not really the point.

(Also, if CS was easier for you than for your peers, was it really the most rigorous major?)

Slightly more practically, why do you need a JD if you want to be an entrepreneur? (Do not say “to go into politics” because that’s correlation not causation and a JD does not prepare you for nor qualify you to enter politics.) And why do you want an MBA right out of undergrad (if I understand correctly that that’s your plan)? My understanding is that MBAs aren’t especially useful without any work experience.
Is maintaining a top pedigree not important? Like let's be real: I don't deserve to be at Berkeley. Berkeley may be a good outcome for certain people, but to be fair I've grown up with so much support, resources, and talent, that anything less than the top would be underwhelming. Frankly, I didn't even apply to Berkeley for undergrad admissions (the worst school I applied to was Dartmouth). Obviously Stanford-Harvard, Stanford-Yale, Stanford-Stanford is much better than degrading to a public state school. As for gold stars, that point makes sense, but I think in the short-term I might as well maximize what I can.
CS was easier for me because of my background in STEM (math competitions and STEM competitions). Additionally, I've been coding since a young age so it was basically a walk in the park.
I don't think a JD would directly give me the skills, but the education would provide intangible benefits. I will graduate when I'm 18, and frankly I have a couple years to spare, so why not? As for the MBA right out of undergrad, I may work at a firm before then, and apply to 2+2? I just want to maximize pedigree in the short-term while I'm too young to be taken seriously, then when I'm 21 or 22, I'll have a respectable pedigree to do what I like. Thank you for the advice!
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by curiousstudent1 »

pancakes3 wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:15 am
curiousstudent1 wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:29 pm
pancakes3 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:46 pm Why do you want to go to law school?
I think I want to get a MBA/JD and be an entrepreneur.
A JD isn't going to help you be an entrepreneur, and really neither will an MBA. You'd be better off taking your tuition and starting your business now. $400k goes a long way to start up a company and you'll need that seed money even if you do graduate with a HLS/HBS degree.

Being an entrepreneur doesn't really guarantee your actual goal of making loads of money either. A successful business is dependent on what business you're starting and how good you are at running that business: things that law school or an MBA program won't teach you, much less guarantee you. A handful of my friends have started successful businesses and only one of them has an MBA (Sloan); none are JD's. I know a few solo practitioners, which counts as starting a small business, but they're not pulling in more than $600k/year.

Additionally, the benefit of an M7 MBA (and LS really) is entirely on the networking/access to employers, and if you're going to be 19-20 years old going into an MBA program and you can't connect socially with your prospective employers (read: drinking) then you're missing out on a lot of the value of the program.

I don't think law school is for you, but more importantly you should re-evaluate what your career goals actually are and come up with a better plan on achieving those goals while avoiding chasing gold stars like Nony said.
Won't they atleast give me some pedigree, teach me how to be a better writer, critical thinker, etc? As for the tuition, obviously not an issue for me. 400k is not a lot. As for the seed money, I'm guaranteed a strong seed round anyways.
As for starting a business not guaranteeing success, I agree. However, at Stanford, a lot of my friends have started companies, got instant valuations of 6-10M, and then sell them to other companies for easy cashouts in around 8-14 months. It's the Stanford brand that affords us that opportunity. I've been involved in some (like 2-3% equity in like 2 of them that were sold off). Making 600k is kind of trivial though, no?
I agree, my career goals need some work. If there's one takeaway I got from this helpful experience it would be to introspect a bit further. Thank you for your perspective and advice!
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Nony
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Nony »

curiousstudent1 wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 12:06 pm
Nony wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:43 am The biggest concern for me is that you think going anywhere other than Harvard or Yale is beneath you. Going from Stanford to Berkeley would not be a terrible look and that you think so is a problem. And if you would only do law school if you get into Harvard or Yale, it doesn’t sound like you’re actually seriously interested in law, you’re just interested in collecting gold stars. The main problem with organizing your life around gold stars is that eventually you run out of stars, and then you don’t actually know what you want to do with yourself because you’ve been living by other people’s judgment.

This is despite the fact that I think you probably have a decent chance at Harvard - Yale is just a black box - but that’s not really the point.

(Also, if CS was easier for you than for your peers, was it really the most rigorous major?)

Slightly more practically, why do you need a JD if you want to be an entrepreneur? (Do not say “to go into politics” because that’s correlation not causation and a JD does not prepare you for nor qualify you to enter politics.) And why do you want an MBA right out of undergrad (if I understand correctly that that’s your plan)? My understanding is that MBAs aren’t especially useful without any work experience.
Is maintaining a top pedigree not important? Like let's be real: I don't deserve to be at Berkeley. Berkeley may be a good outcome for certain people, but to be fair I've grown up with so much support, resources, and talent, that anything less than the top would be underwhelming. Frankly, I didn't even apply to Berkeley for undergrad admissions (the worst school I applied to was Dartmouth). Obviously Stanford-Harvard, Stanford-Yale, Stanford-Stanford is much better than degrading to a public state school. As for gold stars, that point makes sense, but I think in the short-term I might as well maximize what I can.
CS was easier for me because of my background in STEM (math competitions and STEM competitions). Additionally, I've been coding since a young age so it was basically a walk in the park.
I don't think a JD would directly give me the skills, but the education would provide intangible benefits. I will graduate when I'm 18, and frankly I have a couple years to spare, so why not? As for the MBA right out of undergrad, I may work at a firm before then, and apply to 2+2? I just want to maximize pedigree in the short-term while I'm too young to be taken seriously, then when I'm 21 or 22, I'll have a respectable pedigree to do what I like. Thank you for the advice!
You seem like a genuine person so I’m just going to say that your attitude about schools (including one of the top 10 law schools) and rankings and pedigree and value (as well as rigorous majors) is going to really really really rub many people the wrong way, and is also an extremely narrow view of the world (I know because I lived this attitude), and will leave it at that.

But honestly if your family has this much money for you to do whatever you like with, I’m not sure most people’s advice is going to be pertinent to you because the consequences of your choices will be very different than for people whose family can’t or won’t bail them out. Most people here don’t consider making $600k trivial, no.
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BlendedUnicorn
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by BlendedUnicorn »

If the choice is PE or law and what you want is prestige ... well ... PE hires lawyers and not the other way around. Much more prestigious to be the client in this instance.
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by wizzy »

Nebby wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:45 am I'm not convinced this is a real OP
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by wizzy »

If you're a rich trust fund kid, then what's the value of the JD at a biglaw factory type school? It sounds like Stanford BS/MS + GSB MBA is a better fit for your goals. HBS if you want to diversify your pedigree.

I think only a masochist would work in biglaw when your opportunity cost is PE or tech. You would make multiples of your law firm first year associate TC if you went the PE/VC route or became a SWE, given the 3 year headstart you'd have by not going to law school.

Also don't think your "topping out at $600k as a Google L6" anecdote is the right way to think about this. Given your background, you have a better shot of making the jump to 7 figures in PE/VC or as a founder in tech or even a vanilla SWE/PM who cracks L7 (or makes director at a smaller company) than you do making the jump from $500k senior associate / NEP to equity partner.

If you went with a JD job, you'd make less, work longer hours (compared to tech), and take longer to climb to the top of your field. And since you don't want to dilute your prestige: Google is more prestigious than Cravath or whatever firm you'd go to with a JD. You can put ex-Google on your linkedin and raise more money in your seed round with Stanford undergrad + Stanford MBA + Google.
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Story »

wizzy wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 2:27 pm
Nebby wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:45 am I'm not convinced this is a real OP
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Nebby »

After reading these responses, I'm convinced we've got our first troll. LSL has officially made it??
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