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Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Join in the wild mass guessing about the odds of your numbers getting you into a particular school.
curiousstudent1
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Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by curiousstudent1 »

Hi, I'm a student at Stanford. I will graduate with a BS in CS and a MS in CS with a concentration in AI in 4 years. I'm really interested in law, and have taken the LSAT and scored a 178. My GPA is a 4.1 (stanford gives a 4.3 for A+s). For law school I'm thinking of only applying to HLS or YLS to not degrade the prestige of my undergrad. I may get a MBA jointly but not sure. I do not have many community service ECs, but do have lots of ECs in competitions and other pre-professional activities. I'm also an asian male. With this background, what are my chances?
Thank you!
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Baguette
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Baguette »

curiousstudent1 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:04 pmFor law school I'm thinking of only applying to HLS or YLS to not degrade the prestige of my undergrad.
lol, because double Stanford would be too quotidian?
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pancakes3
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by pancakes3 »

Why do you want to go to law school?
Story
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Story »

Your chances are good, but why do you want law school.

Your motives seem mostly about prestige.
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Slytherpuff
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Slytherpuff »

pancakes3 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:46 pm Why do you want to go to law school?
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Slytherpuff
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Slytherpuff »

Otherwise, your chances are good (assuming you can keep your GPA up). I would caution against applying only to two schools though. Even with great stats Yale and Harvard can be crapshoots, and you're missing the chance of potentially getting an amazing scholarship to another top school. Pick some other elite schools you're interested in as well, and plan to apply to those too. Stanford, Columbia, and Chicago at the very least, and I'd say NYU and Penn as well.
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Nony
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Nony »

What does degrading the prestige of your undergrad mean?

How are you so interested in law if you have almost a BS and MS in computer science - why aren’t you going to pursue that?
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Stranger
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Stranger »

Nony wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:55 am What does degrading the prestige of your undergrad mean?

How are you so interested in law if you have almost a BS and MS in computer science - why aren’t you going to pursue that?
Seriously. First, you don't owe your undergrad a thing, let alone protecting their prestige at the potential cost of several hundred thousand dollars. Also, Stanford University's prestige wouldn't be degraded an ounce even if you went to a TTT. Ignoring other top tier law schools (especially the ones that are reliable biglaw factories) would be a serious mistake. If nothing else, trying your luck at getting a Ruby/Hamilton/etc. is worth applying to more than just Yale and Harvard.


Is your goal really politics instead of law? Are you aiming for impact lit or bust? Legal academia? You really haven't given any discernable reason for limiting yourself so much.
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Nony
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Nony »

And if you mean “degrading the prestige of your undergrad degree” rather than “degrading Stanford’s prestige,” that’s not a thing and it looks bad even to raise it.
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Danger Zone
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Danger Zone »

I will graduate with a BS in CS and a MS in CS with a concentration in AI
There are SUCH better opportunities for you right now than law school. Tagging in a couple of people who can help
Johannes wrote:
wizzy wrote:
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Nebby
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Nebby »

I'm not convinced this is a real OP
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Johannes
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Johannes »

I’m a lawyer so not much to add other than I work a lot with tech people and ask SWEs about their jobs all day and know i fucked up.

Wizzy, suralin, and app are the best resources here. Lots of their takes are embedded in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=97&start=375

Can’t for the life of me understand wanting to leave one of the hottest practice areas in the history of the world AIML for a has been career founded on connections/nepotism adjacent /washed up/red tape antithesis of creation career like law (and I actually like my practice relative to my peers).

You’re a shoo-in wherever you apply and will certainly get biglaw. But there’s no beating lockstep career progression without any equity for 11+ years (3 years law school, 6 years associate min, 2 years no equity partner min).

Go work in a startup of big tech ain’t your thing. But the play here to me is just Google/meta your way to insane equity comp.
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pancakes3
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by pancakes3 »

pancakes3 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:46 pm Why do you want to go to law school?
this isn't snark. it's a legitimate question.
curiousstudent1
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by curiousstudent1 »

Baguette wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:12 pm
curiousstudent1 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 7:04 pmFor law school I'm thinking of only applying to HLS or YLS to not degrade the prestige of my undergrad.
lol, because double Stanford would be too quotidian?
Stanford would be cool too, but would like diversity of where I attended.
curiousstudent1
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by curiousstudent1 »

pancakes3 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:46 pm Why do you want to go to law school?
I think I want to get a MBA/JD and be an entrepreneur.
curiousstudent1
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by curiousstudent1 »

Nony wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:55 am What does degrading the prestige of your undergrad mean?

How are you so interested in law if you have almost a BS and MS in computer science - why aren’t you going to pursue that?
I worked very hard to get my spot at Stanford (the most selective undergrad), and don't want to attend a lesser school for law school. To be frank, if I don't get into HYS I probably won't even do law school.
As for the BS and MS in CS. I did it because imo CS is the most rigorous and challenging field. It's honestly pretty easy for me compared to my peers. I don't want to pursue CS by itself because engineers don't make enough.
Last edited by curiousstudent1 on Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
curiousstudent1
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by curiousstudent1 »

Johannes wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:49 am I’m a lawyer so not much to add other than I work a lot with tech people and ask SWEs about their jobs all day and know i fucked up.

Wizzy, suralin, and app are the best resources here. Lots of their takes are embedded in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=97&start=375

Can’t for the life of me understand wanting to leave one of the hottest practice areas in the history of the world AIML for a has been career founded on connections/nepotism adjacent /washed up/red tape antithesis of creation career like law (and I actually like my practice relative to my peers).

You’re a shoo-in wherever you apply and will certainly get biglaw. But there’s no beating lockstep career progression without any equity for 11+ years (3 years law school, 6 years associate min, 2 years no equity partner min).

Go work in a startup of big tech ain’t your thing. But the play here to me is just Google/meta your way to insane equity comp.
The thing is is that I am really confident in my ability for me to be a lawyer: I don't want to doxx myself but my past experience really makes me feel that I could rise to the top. I specifically want to combine the both- think like Legalist or something like that. As for SWE, the pay is not that much. I'm not satisfied with maxing my pay at like 600k, which a L6 at Google would get. As for startups, I plan to do that as well! Thank you for the advice.
Last edited by curiousstudent1 on Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
curiousstudent1
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by curiousstudent1 »

Stranger wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:24 am
Nony wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:55 am What does degrading the prestige of your undergrad mean?

How are you so interested in law if you have almost a BS and MS in computer science - why aren’t you going to pursue that?
Seriously. First, you don't owe your undergrad a thing, let alone protecting their prestige at the potential cost of several hundred thousand dollars. Also, Stanford University's prestige wouldn't be degraded an ounce even if you went to a TTT. Ignoring other top tier law schools (especially the ones that are reliable biglaw factories) would be a serious mistake. If nothing else, trying your luck at getting a Ruby/Hamilton/etc. is worth applying to more than just Yale and Harvard.


Is your goal really politics instead of law? Are you aiming for impact lit or bust? Legal academia? You really haven't given any discernable reason for limiting yourself so much.
Yeah I meant not hurting my prestige (going from Stanford to like a Berkeley law would be a terrible look). As for pay, my father has guaranteed that he can cover all college costs - he made quite a lot of money (hence my high standard for comp) so money is not an issue. To be frank I don't know what Ruby or Hamilton are... I'm still refining my goal but I think I want to do MBA/JD, do a couple startups, become involved politically. Not interested in academia. I also am not really losing out on much - I skipped a couple grades in elementary and so if I were to graduate from YLS, I'll be the same age as seniors in undergrad. Thank you for the advice though, I'm going to think more about where I want to take my JD.
curiousstudent1
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by curiousstudent1 »

Also, will the fact that I rejected Harvard Yale for undergrad hurt my chances? Hopefully not right? Sorry, I didn't plan much out yet, so thank you all for the feedback.
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Stranger
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Stranger »

curiousstudent1 wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:35 pm
Stranger wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 6:24 am
Nony wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 5:55 am What does degrading the prestige of your undergrad mean?

How are you so interested in law if you have almost a BS and MS in computer science - why aren’t you going to pursue that?
Seriously. First, you don't owe your undergrad a thing, let alone protecting their prestige at the potential cost of several hundred thousand dollars. Also, Stanford University's prestige wouldn't be degraded an ounce even if you went to a TTT. Ignoring other top tier law schools (especially the ones that are reliable biglaw factories) would be a serious mistake. If nothing else, trying your luck at getting a Ruby/Hamilton/etc. is worth applying to more than just Yale and Harvard.


Is your goal really politics instead of law? Are you aiming for impact lit or bust? Legal academia? You really haven't given any discernable reason for limiting yourself so much.
Yeah I meant not hurting my prestige (going from Stanford to like a Berkeley law would be a terrible look). As for pay, my father has guaranteed that he can cover all college costs - he made quite a lot of money (hence my high standard for comp) so money is not an issue. To be frank I don't know what Ruby or Hamilton are... I'm still refining my goal but I think I want to do MBA/JD, do a couple startups, become involved politically. Not interested in academia. I also am not really losing out on much - I skipped a couple grades in elementary and so if I were to graduate from YLS, I'll be the same age as seniors in undergrad. Thank you for the advice though, I'm going to think more about where I want to take my JD.
When we talk about "Ruby" on this site, we're talking about the Rubenstein scholarship at Chicago, which includes a full ride and a stipend toward cost of living. It also tends to include a lot of mentorship and faculty support--they really want to make sure the folks they give that sort of scholarship to land in their careers of choice. It's frankly a better outcome than Yale for most career goals, and yours don't sound like the things Yale maintains a leg up in. The Hamilton, at Columbia, isn't quite as good, since it doesn't include the stipend, but if money's not really a concern for you, it would still be a fantastic outcome. If your dad's willing to invest in your education like that, you might as well negotiate a bit with him and see if he's willing to set aside what he'll save by you taking a full ride at Chicago/Columbia/NYU/Penn to invest in your eventual startup.

If you're considering a dual JD/MBA, btw, Chicago and Penn need to be on your radar. Probably Northwestern and Stanford, too. Gotta consider the quality of your MBA program along with your JD program, after all.

But the biggest concern for me is your age. Legal hiring can be tough for someone who's markedly younger than the average law student, and real world work experience if an asset in legal hiring (and in understanding your clients, sometimes). It's something of a mantra on here that it's typically better to work for a few years before law school, and more can help in terms of success in law school--all of the folks in my law school class who were over 30 when we started graduated with honors. Seriously consider getting out for a few years to gain some experience in a real job. You can gain some of the benefits of waiting without being any older than your K-JD classmates at graduation.
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Nony
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Nony »

The biggest concern for me is that you think going anywhere other than Harvard or Yale is beneath you. Going from Stanford to Berkeley would not be a terrible look and that you think so is a problem. And if you would only do law school if you get into Harvard or Yale, it doesn’t sound like you’re actually seriously interested in law, you’re just interested in collecting gold stars. The main problem with organizing your life around gold stars is that eventually you run out of stars, and then you don’t actually know what you want to do with yourself because you’ve been living by other people’s judgment.

This is despite the fact that I think you probably have a decent chance at Harvard - Yale is just a black box - but that’s not really the point.

(Also, if CS was easier for you than for your peers, was it really the most rigorous major?)

Slightly more practically, why do you need a JD if you want to be an entrepreneur? (Do not say “to go into politics” because that’s correlation not causation and a JD does not prepare you for nor qualify you to enter politics.) And why do you want an MBA right out of undergrad (if I understand correctly that that’s your plan)? My understanding is that MBAs aren’t especially useful without any work experience.
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pancakes3
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by pancakes3 »

curiousstudent1 wrote: Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:29 pm
pancakes3 wrote: Mon Jun 06, 2022 8:46 pm Why do you want to go to law school?
I think I want to get a MBA/JD and be an entrepreneur.
A JD isn't going to help you be an entrepreneur, and really neither will an MBA. You'd be better off taking your tuition and starting your business now. $400k goes a long way to start up a company and you'll need that seed money even if you do graduate with a HLS/HBS degree.

Being an entrepreneur doesn't really guarantee your actual goal of making loads of money either. A successful business is dependent on what business you're starting and how good you are at running that business: things that law school or an MBA program won't teach you, much less guarantee you. A handful of my friends have started successful businesses and only one of them has an MBA (Sloan); none are JD's. I know a few solo practitioners, which counts as starting a small business, but they're not pulling in more than $600k/year.

Additionally, the benefit of an M7 MBA (and LS really) is entirely on the networking/access to employers, and if you're going to be 19-20 years old going into an MBA program and you can't connect socially with your prospective employers (read: drinking) then you're missing out on a lot of the value of the program.

I don't think law school is for you, but more importantly you should re-evaluate what your career goals actually are and come up with a better plan on achieving those goals while avoiding chasing gold stars like Nony said.
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by heythatslife »

Let me be blunt. Law school is not for you. You will hate it. Why waste 3 years of your life doing something you clearly have no interest in and will not build skills that are useful for becoming a successful entrepreneur? Plus, the vast majority of HLS/YLS grads never make more than 500k (or if they do, it will be after a decade of grinding in biglaw).

Just go be that tech wunderkind and found the next Uber or whatever. Or if you’re just chasing the $$$ and want to leverage your quant skills for that, go work at a hedge fund.
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Nony »

Also, I know this comes across as incredibly condescending and I know it’s not going to convince you otherwise, but it sounds like you’re about 16 and I feel compelled to say that while I know people very much want to plan out their entire life at that age, it never works.
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Stranger
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Re: Chances of getting in: Sophomore For HLS/YLS

Post by Stranger »

Nony wrote: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:00 am Also, I know this comes across as incredibly condescending and I know it’s not going to convince you otherwise, but it sounds like you’re about 16 and I feel compelled to say that while I know people very much want to plan out their entire life at that age, it never works.
This, but also adding that sometimes the weirdest details of what you think you want will creep in years later in a different flavor. At your age, I wanted to live in a yurt because I thought the word was cool. Eighteen years later, I moved into a platform tent for a few years. That's just about the only detail of my life plan at 16 that's come to pass. I wanted to do computer science at that age, instead I majored in philosophy with a physics minor, worked in insurance for a decade or so, and eventually went to law school. I also wanted to play in a rock band, join the French Foreign Legion, have kids, and learn to be a blacksmith, none of which has remotely come to pass. Neither your responsible nor fun dreams at that age are remotely likely to resemble the bulk of your life.
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