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Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:53 pm
by Associate
Some guy in my firm apparently got 100K for billing 3K hours. A partner said jokingly ppl will feel bad when compared to this associate's performance.

I was like nah bruh. Not even.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:26 pm
by jingosaur
Associate wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:53 pm
Some guy in my firm apparently got 100K for billing 3K hours. A partner said jokingly ppl will feel bad when compared to this associate's performance.

I was like nah bruh. Not even.
Sucks how billing 3000 hours is automatically viewed as "good performance". I've worked with a few people who have hit 3000 hours and working with them fucking sucks. It takes them so long to review things, they don't end up doing half the shit they say they're going to do, they're generally not very organized, they provide no mentorship/teaching because they don't have time. And weekends become the time to have calls and turn documents that a junior like me works on, so I'm working every weekend regardless of how busy I am.

Some people just get busy sometimes, but there are other who always gun for way more work than they should be taking on and it's super annoying.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 12:05 am
by Toni
Bonus was up this year, but so were my hours. This is the one time of the year I wish I was working in NYC/DC.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:05 am
by Johannes
jingosaur wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:26 pm
Associate wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:53 pm
Some guy in my firm apparently got 100K for billing 3K hours. A partner said jokingly ppl will feel bad when compared to this associate's performance.

I was like nah bruh. Not even.
Sucks how billing 3000 hours is automatically viewed as "good performance". I've worked with a few people who have hit 3000 hours and working with them fucking sucks. It takes them so long to review things, they don't end up doing half the shit they say they're going to do, they're generally not very organized, they provide no mentorship/teaching because they don't have time. And weekends become the time to have calls and turn documents that a junior like me works on, so I'm working every weekend regardless of how busy I am.

Some people just get busy sometimes, but there are other who always gun for way more work than they should be taking on and it's super annoying.
They wouldn’t have people giving them 3k hours of work unless they were at least a good performer.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:22 pm
by altoid
Johannes wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:05 am
jingosaur wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:26 pm
Associate wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:53 pm
Some guy in my firm apparently got 100K for billing 3K hours. A partner said jokingly ppl will feel bad when compared to this associate's performance.

I was like nah bruh. Not even.
Sucks how billing 3000 hours is automatically viewed as "good performance". I've worked with a few people who have hit 3000 hours and working with them fucking sucks. It takes them so long to review things, they don't end up doing half the shit they say they're going to do, they're generally not very organized, they provide no mentorship/teaching because they don't have time. And weekends become the time to have calls and turn documents that a junior like me works on, so I'm working every weekend regardless of how busy I am.

Some people just get busy sometimes, but there are other who always gun for way more work than they should be taking on and it's super annoying.
They wouldn’t have people giving them 3k hours of work unless they were at least a good performer.
Yep, people do not appreciate inneficient associates. I am sure partners and clients will not look kindly if someone bills on something twice what other associates bill on similar things

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:10 pm
by riot
had a nice lol at the idea of clients being able to discern the difference between associate a and associate b billing 8 and 16 hours of “review and markup merger agreement” on their respective deals

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:08 pm
by lolwat
riot wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:10 pm
had a nice lol at the idea of clients being able to discern the difference between associate a and associate b billing 8 and 16 hours of “review and markup merger agreement” on their respective deals
Some clients require a lot more detail than that. It may also just be more obvious in litigation. I can't just write "conduct legal research and draft motion xxx." Practically none of the clients we have would accept that. The biggest block I could have probably gotten away with was something like "attend trial proceedings for (day)" because the clients are OK knowing you were working from 9am to 4:30pm or whatever court hours are, plus breaks/lunches.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:39 am
by James Baxter
lolwat wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:08 pm
riot wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:10 pm
had a nice lol at the idea of clients being able to discern the difference between associate a and associate b billing 8 and 16 hours of “review and markup merger agreement” on their respective deals
Some clients require a lot more detail than that. It may also just be more obvious in litigation. I can't just write "conduct legal research and draft motion xxx." Practically none of the clients we have would accept that. The biggest block I could have probably gotten away with was something like "attend trial proceedings for (day)" because the clients are OK knowing you were working from 9am to 4:30pm or whatever court hours are, plus breaks/lunches.
Oh man, I don’t know what I’d do without “attend to closing matters”

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:41 pm
by Desert Fox
riot wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:10 pm
had a nice lol at the idea of clients being able to discern the difference between associate a and associate b billing 8 and 16 hours of “review and markup merger agreement” on their respective deals
This might be a difference between lit and Corp. but in lit we often have budgets that need to be stuck too (or at least near). Partners hate people who blow the budget on clear bullshit. Those hours get cut just to make the bill fit.

Galaxy brain is when the attorneys can figure out which bills can get blowed up and which can’t.

Creditor side bk? This bill shall know no limits.

I imagine V5 M&A is the no limits style.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:08 pm
by riot
I just want everyone ITT to know that I have billed over 40 hours to “review diligence documents” in the past five days.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:08 pm
by riot
What do you even put in a litigation bill?

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:41 am
by Slytherpuff
We're always right up against the budget for one of my big cases that's in discovery so I think a ton of my work is getting written off right now (and that's a client that needs incredibly specific details for everything you're doing).

The closest I've done to "review diligence documents" is for one of my older cases where I can just put down a nicer sounding version of "review and analyze x complaint" or "draft/revise x motion/brief/whatever." Billing seems to be a lot easier in the MTD stage.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:04 pm
by altoid
riot wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:10 pm
had a nice lol at the idea of clients being able to discern the difference between associate a and associate b billing 8 and 16 hours of “review and markup merger agreement” on their respective deals

They have a pretty good idea in finance practices unless it is something really unique or unforeseen issues came up. Like the banks do those type of deals all the time—they will notice if one is double the typical amount.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:04 pm
by lolwat
riot wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:08 pm
What do you even put in a litigation bill?
review (specific docs/sets of docs)
conduct legal research into (topic)
draft (discovery/motion/brief/whatever other document)
prepare for/attend (hearing, deposition, trial)
etc.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:30 pm
by beep
pretty much what lolwat said, though at my firm i'm usually encouraged to also put what the research/review is for

e.g. "research [specific sub-area of relevant law / doctrine] in preparation for [motion/filing/letter/etc]"

probably varies by partner/client as well

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:16 pm
by riot
*bills 20 hours over holiday weekend to “Draft S-4.”*

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:21 pm
by BigZuck
riot wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:16 pm
*bills 20 hours over holiday weekend to “Draft S-4.”*
Tomorrow will you still be drafting or will you have moved on to the “review and revise” stage?

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:37 pm
by riot
BigZuck wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:21 pm
riot wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:16 pm
*bills 20 hours over holiday weekend to “Draft S-4.”*
Tomorrow will you still be drafting or will you have moved on to the “review and revise” stage?
I like to switch to review and revise after it comes back from the senior associate/partner with comments. It’s a personal stylistic choice and I only get to make so many of those you know?

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:19 am
by lolwat
beep wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:30 pm
pretty much what lolwat said, though at my firm i'm usually encouraged to also put what the research/review is for

e.g. "research [specific sub-area of relevant law / doctrine] in preparation for [motion/filing/letter/etc]"

probably varies by partner/client as well
Yeah, we're encouraged to put as much detail as possible without it turning dumb, mostly so we don't end up with a giant block of like 8 hours to a single thing. Outside of a few things like attending trial/hearings we generally don't have a single entry over like 3-4 hours because after that it can almost always be broken up into smaller pieces that look better to the client. It's an annoying billing thing but it's like the difference between two entries of "draft introduction section of brief 2.0" plus "draft background section of brief 3.0" versus one entry of "draft brief 5.0."

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:48 am
by shredlife
Slytherpuff wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:41 am
We're always right up against the budget for one of my big cases that's in discovery so I think a ton of my work is getting written off right now (and that's a client that needs incredibly specific details for everything you're doing).

The closest I've done to "review diligence documents" is for one of my older cases where I can just put down a nicer sounding version of "review and analyze x complaint" or "draft/revise x motion/brief/whatever." Billing seems to be a lot easier in the MTD stage.
do you not get, or is it actually not standard/common to get regular (e.g., monthly) reports showing your write downs, discounts, billed hrs/revenue, etc.? I always have, and kinda figured that was par for the course. Helps a lot to see..

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:04 am
by Slytherpuff
shredlife wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:48 am
Slytherpuff wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:41 am
We're always right up against the budget for one of my big cases that's in discovery so I think a ton of my work is getting written off right now (and that's a client that needs incredibly specific details for everything you're doing).

The closest I've done to "review diligence documents" is for one of my older cases where I can just put down a nicer sounding version of "review and analyze x complaint" or "draft/revise x motion/brief/whatever." Billing seems to be a lot easier in the MTD stage.
do you not get, or is it actually not standard/common to get regular (e.g., monthly) reports showing your write downs, discounts, billed hrs/revenue, etc.? I always have, and kinda figured that was par for the course. Helps a lot to see..
For all I know that could be standard practice! At my firm we get some of this information but not all of it, and it's more of an average basis rather than monthly by the time the report updates. Partners can probably see more information.

Re: 2018 Bonus Discussion

Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:14 am
by shredlife
Slytherpuff wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:04 am
shredlife wrote:
Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:48 am

do you not get, or is it actually not standard/common to get regular (e.g., monthly) reports showing your write downs, discounts, billed hrs/revenue, etc.? I always have, and kinda figured that was par for the course. Helps a lot to see..
For all I know that could be standard practice! At my firm we get some of this information but not all of it, and it's more of an average basis rather than monthly by the time the report updates. Partners can probably see more information.
right gotcha :) it has only recently that I've gotten real introspective trying to figure wtf I wanna do... That I've realized I have no idea which of things that I like..and hate..are actually the same across law/biglaw/my relatively smaller region/my practice group/or just my firm

I cant imagine not having it, but then again I also can't imagine these bottomless budgets mentioned either, lol