If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post Reply
JuniorLateral

If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by JuniorLateral » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:33 pm

As a junior associate, would you consider lateraling to another firm if your firm doesn't match the Cravath scale?

Recruiters seem to be hounding a lot this past week or so, but I'm not sure if that's in light of recent raises, or unrelated.

User avatar
SmokeytheBear
Posts: 1026
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:26 am

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by SmokeytheBear » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:37 pm

JuniorLateral wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:33 pm
As a junior associate, would you consider lateraling to another firm if your firm doesn't match the Cravath scale?

Recruiters seem to be hounding a lot this past week or so, but I'm not sure if that's in light of recent raises, or unrelated.
They did the same thing when 180 happened. Just wait for the dust to settle.

User avatar
freshy dog
Posts: 75
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by freshy dog » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:39 pm

not from my current firm, because I like the people and the work which might not happen at another firm and getting resettled seems generally tiresome. but idk, I agree with smokey that most big firms that people who post here work for will match

BearCat
Posts: 1032
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:43 pm

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by BearCat » Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:38 pm

freshy dog wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:39 pm
not from my current firm, because I like the people and the work which might not happen at another firm and getting resettled seems generally tiresome. but idk, I agree with smokey that most big firms that people who post here work for will match
If we assume GT isn't gonna match from their memo and draw a PPL/RPL/PPP/RPP/whatever line at where GT is, a lot of Amlaw 100 firms aren't gonna match. Baker McKenzie, Dentons, Norton Rose Fullbright, White & Case maybe, Reed Smith, K&L Gates (lol @ this firm having a 96k PPL), Perkins Coie, etc.

And that's just Amlaw 100 firms.

lolwat
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:06 am

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by lolwat » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:36 pm

There are lots of reasons to lateral, but I think if you're thinking of lateraling for another $10k (pre-tax) when you're already making $180k, there's probably more to that decision than just the money.

User avatar
Yea All Right
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:21 pm

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by Yea All Right » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:27 am

lolwat wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:36 pm
There are lots of reasons to lateral, but I think if you're thinking of lateraling for another $10k (pre-tax) when you're already making $180k, there's probably more to that decision than just the money.
Partners refusing to pay $10k-$15k more isn't just about the money, it shows that they don't value the associates. I don't blame someone for wanting to switch to another biglaw firm where they feel more valued, especially if they're spending so many hours and so much mental energy on the job.

lolwat
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:06 am

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by lolwat » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:47 am

Yea All Right wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:27 am
lolwat wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:36 pm
There are lots of reasons to lateral, but I think if you're thinking of lateraling for another $10k (pre-tax) when you're already making $180k, there's probably more to that decision than just the money.
Partners refusing to pay $10k-$15k more isn't just about the money, it shows that they don't value the associates. I don't blame someone for wanting to switch to another biglaw firm where they feel more valued, especially if they're spending so many hours and so much mental energy on the job.
At a smaller firm I'd be more inclined to feel that way because decisions like compensation are a lot more individualized and personal. Probably not at biglaw, especially now at my years where I'm pretty certain firms actually do lose plenty of money on junior associates and it's not just something they say. I think if you like the work you're doing and the people you're working with, lateraling for another $10-15k is a little shortsighted. Not all biglaw firms are the same... just like there are some boutique firms where they pay everyone higher than market (or at least used to) because they "have to" do that to keep them "happy." If you truly feel unvalued simply because the firm isn't matching raises and that's tipping you over the edge to lateral, I'd think you probably aren't very happy at other aspects of the firm to begin with, either. I'm not saying it's necessarily unreasonable to lateral, and the raises collectively add up over time (160k to 180k to 190k) but at some point this gets a little crazy.

Excellent117
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:48 pm

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by Excellent117 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:21 pm

BearCat wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:38 pm
freshy dog wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:39 pm
not from my current firm, because I like the people and the work which might not happen at another firm and getting resettled seems generally tiresome. but idk, I agree with smokey that most big firms that people who post here work for will match
If we assume GT isn't gonna match from their memo and draw a PPL/RPL/PPP/RPP/whatever line at where GT is, a lot of Amlaw 100 firms aren't gonna match. Baker McKenzie, Dentons, Norton Rose Fullbright, White & Case maybe, Reed Smith, K&L Gates (lol @ this firm having a 96k PPL), Perkins Coie, etc.

And that's just Amlaw 100 firms.
This is kind of a weird list...

White & Case is at $2.26M PPP and $354k PPL
Reed Smith is at $1.178M PPP and $226k PPL
Perkins Coie is at $1.173M PPP and $221k PPL
Baker McKenzie is at $1.3M PPP and $193k PPL
Norton Rose is at $860k PPP and $184k PPL
K&L Gates is at $932k PPP and $92k PPL
Dentons is at $410k PPP and PPL so low that I couldn't even find the number

BearCat
Posts: 1032
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:43 pm

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by BearCat » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:25 pm

Excellent117 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:21 pm
BearCat wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:38 pm
freshy dog wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:39 pm
not from my current firm, because I like the people and the work which might not happen at another firm and getting resettled seems generally tiresome. but idk, I agree with smokey that most big firms that people who post here work for will match
If we assume GT isn't gonna match from their memo and draw a PPL/RPL/PPP/RPP/whatever line at where GT is, a lot of Amlaw 100 firms aren't gonna match. Baker McKenzie, Dentons, Norton Rose Fullbright, White & Case maybe, Reed Smith, K&L Gates (lol @ this firm having a 96k PPL), Perkins Coie, etc.

And that's just Amlaw 100 firms.
This is kind of a weird list...

White & Case is at $2.26M PPP and $354k PPL
Reed Smith is at $1.178M PPP and $226k PPL
Perkins Coie is at $1.173M PPP and $221k PPL
Baker McKenzie is at $1.3M PPP and $193k PPL
Norton Rose is at $860k PPP and $184k PPL
K&L Gates is at $932k PPP and $92k PPL
Dentons is at $410k PPP and PPL so low that I couldn't even find the number
Why is it a weird list? White & Case is at 291k PPL. I just picked amlaw 100 firms with <300k PPL. Even though White & Case has high PPP, they're highly leveraged and only have a profit margin of 38%, so a raise would hit the partners very hard. It doesn't mean they're guaranteed not to raise, but it makes it less likely.

Dentons PPL is 169k. Your numbers are a little out of date. Most of those have lower numbers than what you listed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... prov=sfla1

Winston raised with 327k PPL, but everyone else is over 500k PPL. At least, the ones that have public information. No idea on HH, Irell, or Selenday.

Excellent117
Posts: 175
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:48 pm

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by Excellent117 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:34 pm

BearCat wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:25 pm
Excellent117 wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:21 pm
BearCat wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:38 pm
freshy dog wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:39 pm
not from my current firm, because I like the people and the work which might not happen at another firm and getting resettled seems generally tiresome. but idk, I agree with smokey that most big firms that people who post here work for will match
If we assume GT isn't gonna match from their memo and draw a PPL/RPL/PPP/RPP/whatever line at where GT is, a lot of Amlaw 100 firms aren't gonna match. Baker McKenzie, Dentons, Norton Rose Fullbright, White & Case maybe, Reed Smith, K&L Gates (lol @ this firm having a 96k PPL), Perkins Coie, etc.

And that's just Amlaw 100 firms.
This is kind of a weird list...

White & Case is at $2.26M PPP and $354k PPL
Reed Smith is at $1.178M PPP and $226k PPL
Perkins Coie is at $1.173M PPP and $221k PPL
Baker McKenzie is at $1.3M PPP and $193k PPL
Norton Rose is at $860k PPP and $184k PPL
K&L Gates is at $932k PPP and $92k PPL
Dentons is at $410k PPP and PPL so low that I couldn't even find the number
Why is it a weird list? White & Case is at 291k PPL. I just picked amlaw 100 firms with <300k PPL. Even though White & Case has high PPP, they're highly leveraged and only have a profit margin of 38%, so a raise would hit the partners very hard. It doesn't mean they're guaranteed not to raise, but it makes it less likely.

Dentons PPL is 169k. Your numbers are a little out of date. Most of those have lower numbers than what you listed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... prov=sfla1

Winston raised with 327k PPL, but everyone else is over 500k PPL. At least, the ones that have public information. No idea on HH, Irell, or Selenday.
Huh, the 2018 Am Law 100 PPL numbers are different than the above.

I just think from the metrics that W&C/Winston vs. Reed Smith/Perkins/Baker vs. Norton/K&L/Dentons are three (or four, if you want to bump Dentons down even more) different tiers.

Guest

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by Guest » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:16 am

I think W&C's PPL is skewed due to the number of lawyers in other countries that do not affect this metric in ways that other firm's foreign offices might. Lots of "local partners" and associates paid and billed out at very different rates. To be fair, I don't know AmLaw's exact formula.

User avatar
emkay625
Moderator
Posts: 331
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:12 am

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by emkay625 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:52 pm

Nope, I would not.

Joey
Posts: 62
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:53 pm

Re: If your firm doesn't match, would you lateral?

Post by Joey » Thu Jun 14, 2018 5:11 pm

YES

(in case any of my firm partnership is reading).

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests