Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

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Nebby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nebby » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 am

20/120 qualifying payments made
Est. eligibility for forgiveness: Jan. 2027

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JenDarby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by JenDarby » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:21 pm

Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 am
20/120 qualifying payments made
Est. eligibility to apply for but likely be denied forgiveness: Jan. 2027
ftfy based on current trends

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Nebby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nebby » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 pm

JenDarby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:21 pm
Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 am
20/120 qualifying payments made
Est. eligibility to apply for but likely be denied forgiveness: Jan. 2027
ftfy based on current trends
Thankfully my situation is not susceptible to what others who've been denied have encountered. That's not to say that the program doesn't have a learning curve that's too high.

riot
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by riot » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:38 pm

Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 pm
JenDarby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:21 pm
Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 am
20/120 qualifying payments made
Est. eligibility to apply for but likely be denied forgiveness: Jan. 2027
ftfy based on current trends
Thankfully my situation is not susceptible to what others who've been denied have encountered. That's not to say that the program doesn't have a learning curve that's too high.
All 99% of them?

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Nebby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nebby » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:56 pm

riot wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:38 pm
Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 pm
JenDarby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:21 pm
Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 am
20/120 qualifying payments made
Est. eligibility to apply for but likely be denied forgiveness: Jan. 2027
ftfy based on current trends
Thankfully my situation is not susceptible to what others who've been denied have encountered. That's not to say that the program doesn't have a learning curve that's too high.
All 99% of them?
Yes. I do not know what the specific reason was for each rejection, but from news stories that have come out recently, the majority of issues seem to be caused by the following four problems:

(1) Wrong repayment plan. PSLF requires borrows to be in certain income-based repayment plans ("qualifying plan"). The problem is that many of the qualifying plans that exist now did not exist in PSLF's early years (PAYE, REPAYE) and, therefore, unless you were on the single plan that qualified, then your payments don't count. I.e., if you made a years worth of payments on the standard repayment plan, those payments did not count (which is bullshit).

I'm going to be on PAYE until the end so that won't be an issue for me.

(2) Employment not government or 501(c)(3). PSLF requires borrows to be in "public service" jobs, which are defined a variety of ways. The regulations categorically include all government or 501(c)(3) employees, and may, at their discretion, approve other jobs if they fit certain characteristics. The problem some people have faced is that DOEd has exercised its discretion to now no longer include some job types that they had previously said were included--this is what the ABA lawsuit is about.

My job is a 501(c)(3) and plan on staying in a 501(c)(3) until forgiveness.

(3) "Paid-ahead" status and the definition of monthly payment. PSLF requires you to make monthly qualifying payments, and you must make them monthly. Some borrowers would "pay ahead" by making, say, a large payment worth 3 months of payments, which would put them in "paid ahead" status and thus not require them to make another payment until the 3 months are up.

The problem with the way PSLF works, however, is that it requires monthly payments, therefore even if you do pay 3 months worth, that only counts as 1 qualifying payment, and you must still make subsequent monthly payments.

I make sure to pay the qualifying amount each month even though my LRAP funds could allow to pay up to 6 months in advance.

(4) Not working in qualifying employment for an entire month. PSLF requires a qualifying payment be made during a month in which the borrow was in a public service job for the entire month. I.e., if you change jobs and have even a day "off" between employment, then that month won't count. This wouldn't result in a ton of lost months, but it's still a ridiculous rule.

I'm preparing for this and, if I do get a different job, will probably schedule a start to be immediately proceeding the end at my last one (or at least anticipating losing a month if not).

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Nebby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nebby » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:01 pm

I should probably put this in a guide or something just so people know the common mistakes and can plan accordingly.

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JenDarby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by JenDarby » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:38 pm

riot wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:38 pm
Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:25 pm
JenDarby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:21 pm
Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:07 am
20/120 qualifying payments made
Est. eligibility to apply for but likely be denied forgiveness: Jan. 2027
ftfy based on current trends
Thankfully my situation is not susceptible to what others who've been denied have encountered. That's not to say that the program doesn't have a learning curve that's too high.
All 99% of them?
that 99% likely lacked the intelligence/rigor/public interest savvy to understand pslf rules

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Danger Zone
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Danger Zone » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:03 pm

Nebby as a member of the 1% just doesn't ring true

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Nebby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nebby » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:46 pm

This must have been what my recent Witcher posting looked like

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Nebby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nebby » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:48 pm

Y'all realize that PSLF isn't some black box or lottery, right?

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Nony
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nony » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:16 pm

Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:56 pm
(3) "Paid-ahead" status and the definition of monthly payment. PSLF requires you to make monthly qualifying payments, and you must make them monthly. Some borrowers would "pay ahead" by making, say, a large payment worth 3 months of payments, which would put them in "paid ahead" status and thus not require them to make another payment until the 3 months are up.

The problem with the way PSLF works, however, is that it requires monthly payments, therefore even if you do pay 3 months worth, that only counts as 1 qualifying payment, and you must still make subsequent monthly payments.
Has this been confirmed by the loan servicer? The article talking about paid ahead status wasn't clear about whether it was the above, or whether it was people making additional payments while in paid-ahead status (that the additional payments don't count).

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Nebby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nebby » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 pm

Nony wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:16 pm
Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:56 pm
(3) "Paid-ahead" status and the definition of monthly payment. PSLF requires you to make monthly qualifying payments, and you must make them monthly. Some borrowers would "pay ahead" by making, say, a large payment worth 3 months of payments, which would put them in "paid ahead" status and thus not require them to make another payment until the 3 months are up.

The problem with the way PSLF works, however, is that it requires monthly payments, therefore even if you do pay 3 months worth, that only counts as 1 qualifying payment, and you must still make subsequent monthly payments.
Has this been confirmed by the loan servicer? The article talking about paid ahead status wasn't clear about whether it was the above, or whether it was people making additional payments while in paid-ahead status (that the additional payments don't count).
That was my interpretation of the the requirement and that article. There must be a monthly payment made that is at least as much as the required monthly amount. A 3-month's worth payment only counts as one qualifying payment. It's a dumb rule, but that's what's tripped up some borrows. I thought that article also said that DOEd was looking to fix it so a 3-month's payment would equal 3 QP instead of one.

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JenDarby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by JenDarby » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:03 am

Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 pm
That was my interpretation of the the requirement and that article.
making this statement while simultaneously being so full of yourself to assume that 99% of applicants, most of who probably weren’t even transfers!, just got it wrong is perfect

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JenDarby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by JenDarby » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:03 am

Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:48 pm
Y'all realize that PSLF isn't some black box or lottery, right?
so far it looks worse

at least with the lottery you assume you’re fucked and have no chance

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Nebby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nebby » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:17 am

JenDarby wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:03 am
Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 pm
That was my interpretation of the the requirement and that article.
making this statement while simultaneously being so full of yourself to assume that 99% of applicants, most of who probably weren’t even transfers!, just got it wrong is perfect
You're really going to town on that strawman. I don't know what your point or problem is, but I hope you feel better soon

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Nony
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nony » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:29 am

TBF, the requirements were pretty unclear/poorly understood right when the program was rolled out, so it’s not at all surprising to me that a lot of people don’t have the required number of payments yet despite having graduated long enough ago to possibly qualify. I’ll want to see how many get approved in the next 3 years or so before declaring it a lottery. I suspect a bunch of the people who got turned down in the first round will qualify later (it’s not like you get only one shot to qualify and then you’re done).

(That said, I interpreted the article differently/don’t think the article was clear, but am going to call the provider to try to get a definitive answer.)

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JenDarby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by JenDarby » Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:38 am

Nebby wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:17 am
JenDarby wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:03 am
Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 pm
That was my interpretation of the the requirement and that article.
making this statement while simultaneously being so full of yourself to assume that 99% of applicants, most of who probably weren’t even transfers!, just got it wrong is perfect
You're really going to town on that strawman. I don't know what your point or problem is, but I hope you feel better soon
Lol

just shocked you didn’t report that post

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Nebby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nebby » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:28 am

JenDarby wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:38 am
Nebby wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:17 am
JenDarby wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:03 am
Nebby wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:36 pm
That was my interpretation of the the requirement and that article.
making this statement while simultaneously being so full of yourself to assume that 99% of applicants, most of who probably weren’t even transfers!, just got it wrong is perfect
You're really going to town on that strawman. I don't know what your point or problem is, but I hope you feel better soon
Lol

just shocked you didn’t report that post
Why would I? I only report posts that are homophobic/sexist/transphobic/racist/etc. I don't report people for just being chucklefucks

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Nebby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nebby » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:33 am

Nony wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:29 am
TBF, the requirements were pretty unclear/poorly understood right when the program was rolled out, so it’s not at all surprising to me that a lot of people don’t have the required number of payments yet despite having graduated long enough ago to possibly qualify. I’ll want to see how many get approved in the next 3 years or so before declaring it a lottery. I suspect a bunch of the people who got turned down in the first round will qualify later (it’s not like you get only one shot to qualify and then you’re done).

(That said, I interpreted the article differently/don’t think the article was clear, but am going to call the provider to try to get a definitive answer.)
I agree. It's too early to draw conclusions, particularly in light of the fact that there was little to no resources or guidance available to borrowers in the first few years of the program.

For instance, many people reasonably assumed that any payment made while in qualifying employment would count, but DOEd turned out to interpret the requirement very narrowly. It's fucking absurd because making a standard repayment, which is much higher than an income-based repayment, should intuitively count just as much as an income-based repayment because the government is not getting any less money, and yet DOEd has ruled that such payments don't qualify.

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Slytherpuff
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Slytherpuff » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:46 am

Agree with what Nony and Nebby said - we'll see how many people end up getting their 10-year forgiveness over the next few years. But from all the articles out there about it, it really seems like the requirements weren't clear enough ten years back and the reason almost everyone got denied was because they hadn't followed one of the guidelines. It's not that people nowadays are smarter/savvier than 99% of people who entered the program 10 years ago, it's just that the requirements are a lot clearer nowadays so fewer recent grads are going to have to worry about being denied for not complying with the program requirements.

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Johannes
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Johannes » Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:46 pm

The govt fucked it up. They couldn’t process people’s annual/IDR applications on time.

Have you not read some of the wildly inconsistent crazy shit me and chicken have posted? The govt contracts this out to the most inept orgs. All of the news botched this story. You think 99% of people are paying more than their monthly due bill? These aren’t lawyers and doctors. Primarily teachers and army etc. can’t afford to pay ahead.

http://www.mass.gov/ago/docs/consumer/c ... -23-17.pdf

riot
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by riot » Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:21 am

Johannes wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:46 pm
The govt fucked it up. They couldn’t process people’s annual/IDR applications on time.

Have you not read some of the wildly inconsistent crazy shit me and chicken have posted? The govt contracts this out to the most inept orgs. All of the news botched this story. You think 99% of people are paying more than their monthly due bill? These aren’t lawyers and doctors. Primarily teachers and army etc. can’t afford to pay ahead.

http://www.mass.gov/ago/docs/consumer/c ... -23-17.pdf
no johann you don’t get it. neeby reads the pslf regs to understand

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Nony
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Nony » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:44 am

Yes, people have actually posted here regularly about issues with FedLoan undercounting (taking forever to get you on the right plan, putting you in forbearance while recertifying, that kind of thing).

Anony-graduate

Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by Anony-graduate » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:14 am

Does anyone know if the old TLS personal finance thread made it over here? I can’t find it and I’m curious about Schwab investing. I was planning on opening a PRCA and going 70/20/10 on a vanguard total index/international/bond but I wasn’t sure if this was right decision or not and what pros/cons of a PRCA account vs a normal schwab account were

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JenDarby
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Re: Student Loans: Payment Options and Numbers

Post by JenDarby » Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:41 am

Anony-graduate wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:14 am
Does anyone know if the old TLS personal finance thread made it over here? I can’t find it and I’m curious about Schwab investing. I was planning on opening a PRCA and going 70/20/10 on a vanguard total index/international/bond but I wasn’t sure if this was right decision or not and what pros/cons of a PRCA account vs a normal schwab account were
Yes, here’s the personal finance thread!

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