Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

LawSSS2
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Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:11 pm

Is that okay? Still a student. It would be in separate industries and the employers are in two different states with two different client bases (one only takes clients within the city and the I am 99% sure the other firm has no clients here). I highly highly doubt there would ever be a conflict. Do I have to inform them of my second job?

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pancakes3
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by pancakes3 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:14 pm

don't do this. not only for conflict reasons but also logistically.

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:17 pm

I mean the second one is really not going to be consistent. it'll probably be a few hours here or there and it's really just for one attorney. I'm not even sure she'll do a formal offer or anything. But you think there are conflict issues no matter what? even in separate states and two totally different industries?

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pancakes3
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by pancakes3 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:31 pm

you won't need to address the conflicts issue if you accept just one job. like, why do 2 jobs?

but yeah, you need to disclose. it's not about calculating the likelihood of actual conflicts. it's about you being honest and giving notice to your employer so they can make informed decisions.

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:39 pm

I mean money. Im broke af.

Okay, I guess I can disclose, but it feels like it should be none of their concern if it won't have any effect on their business.

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Nony
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by Nony » Tue Oct 15, 2019 8:57 pm

But part of the problem is that as a student, you can't actually tell if it will have an effect on their business, and you aren't the person who gets to decide that.

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:20 pm

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jeff chiles
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by jeff chiles » Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:19 pm

If you need money get an extra job at school not at another firm or just quit once you find a firm that will give you more hours/money.

I’m sure you could get away with it but it’s not right and you know better as a law student.

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:47 am

That first sentence is a little callous. The school pays jack shit and these places pay 10+ more an hour. And the flexibility of the second job to work remote is the only reason I could handle the total amount of hours I would be working between the two. I couldn't do the same if I had actually be in an office that long - even if it was one employer.

While I understand that I should allow each firm to make their own informed decision, I also know enough to be almost certain there will never be conflict. These are two separate states and two completely different areas of law targeting different sets of clients. I feel that a firm shouldn't be able to control where else I work if the economic reality is that it would have no effect on their business.

I'll let them make the assessment for themselves though, but I wouldn't feel bad doing it anyway. I wouldn't say I was doing anything wrong.

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Nony
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by Nony » Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:16 am

LawSSS2 wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:47 am
And the flexibility of the second job to work remote is the only reason I could handle the total amount of hours I would be working between the two. I couldn't do the same if I had actually be in an office that long - even if it was one employer.
Which is probably a good reason not to do both jobs.

Also it doesn’t matter whether you think you’re doing anything wrong. Chances are good they won’t care and it won’t be an issue, but if they do, working for both would definitely be doing something wrong.

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HelloYesThisIsDog
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by HelloYesThisIsDog » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:15 am

Can't you pick up a research assistant gig at your school for a professor? That should pay more than $10 an hour.

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:21 am

?? I do not understand this mentality. The argument is that I shouldn't work two jobs that together pay me better than other options and still fit around my schedule, when I have the monetary need. It's really baffling tbh

And unless i'm actually violating a law or my employment terms, and there's no harm, I don't think I would be doing anything wrong. If the argument is that I am violating a law or my employment terms, then yes, I am doing something wrong, because i made an agreement and I broke it. That's kinda how it boils down for me.
Last edited by LawSSS2 on Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:24 am

HelloYesThisIsDog wrote:
Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:15 am
Can't you pick up a research assistant gig at your school for a professor? That should pay more than $10 an hour.
Yeah but they pay 10-15 less than either of these options. If I am going to taking on extra hours, the marginal benefit has to be more than my marginal cost. Because my time is pretty constrained at this point, so I'm valuing it more, I don't think 15/16 an hour really cuts it.

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jeff chiles
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by jeff chiles » Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:59 am

Even if there are no ethical issues there’s a chance one or both firms have malpractice policies that prevent covered persons from moonlighting without clearing it with the firm and using the firms standard engagement letter/conflicts process.

Money doesn’t make something OK or not but an extra 100-200 a month really doesn’t make this worth it. The time is way better spent at a nonsense school job where you can also focus on the goal of finding good post grad employment.

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Nony
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by Nony » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 am

Dude, my point about the schedule was that maybe you won’t be able to handle both. You want to make sure you can do an equally good job for both gigs. And my point about how you wouldn’t say you’d be doing anything wrong - no one here has said that working for both employers is wrong, *if they both know and are okay with it.* Not telling them is what would be wrong. People are suggesting you just do a different job because one of these employers may, in fact, have an issue with what you’re suggesting. And one of your comments made it sound like you’d do it anyway regardless of what they thought.

(Also what jeff chiles said, who posted while I was writing this. Especially about the money.)

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:38 am

Okay, I see the point that re malpractice policies. However if the firm takes issue with me doing something which they don't put me on notice about in their manual or letter, would that be on me?

You guys can continue to tell me the extra money isn't worth it, but it is. The only way it wouldn't be worth it (at this price), is if working two jobs without disclosure lands me a place where I lose one of the jobs because I had an obligation to disclose. If i have an obligation, they should notify me of that, right? in their polices? And if they don't, then technically I have no obligation to disclose?

Like most T14 2ls my post-grad employment is mostly secured already assuming I don't fuck up my 2l SA and if I did, these positions would not be my back-up option. It's totally unconnected to post-gad employment.

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jeff chiles
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by jeff chiles » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:47 am

if you are at a 2L at a T14 with a presumably big law SA lined up I have no idea why you are doing this why have potential conflicts from 2 small time law clerk jobs that could even remotely jeopardize your anticipated SA and post grad employment.

The obligation to disclose doesn’t come from policies (thought it might) but from a duty to avoid conflicts of interest. You are not in a position to say for sure that there are no conflicts.

Not to be a jerk but you need to figure out money management or get more loans. This is extremely shortsighted and I assumed you were at a bad school with no current prospects.

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:14 am

Okay, I'm going to put aside all your assumptions about how you think I handle time management, my loans, my academics, my shortsightedness, and whatever else. You have no idea what my financial circumstances are, what my course load looks like, etc. Please let me make my own decision about my time and money. It was not my intention to debate that...you would need a lot more info before making that kind of remark, imo.

What I am trying to understand is my obligation to disclose. From how it is being explained, even without policies laying this out explicitly, it seems I have a duty to disclose. Honestly, I just wanted to know what was simply best practice and what were my real and actual minimum obligations to these employers. I see your point about non-disclosure and risk to future employment as well. i guess there's no reason to risk being fired form it, even if the chance of that outcome realizing is exceedingly low.

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pancakes3
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by pancakes3 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:20 am

i mean... yeah. professional responsibility and all that.

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:37 am

yeah...i just don't know anything about professional responsibility yet. (clearly haha) anyway i appreciate the advice from everyone.

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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by J Socks » Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:49 am

I agree with one of the posters above that this is pretty short-sighted. I don't know your financial situation, but I know you could just take out a loan, and then with your biglaw job lined up, you can certainly pay it back fairly quickly.

And, it's short-sighted because even if the odds are low, you're jeopardizing your biglaw job because now you have potential conflicts because you've worked for other law firms. The odds are super low, but you never know if the firm you're going to does some random pro bono project that conflicts or something weird.

Just work at Starbucks or something and spend less money...

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:31 pm

Omg, you guys totally convinced me. I'm absolutely going to drop my 25/hour position in an office that involves 0 customer service obligations that's also training me to be a better lawyer and helping me pay critical bills for a 7.25/hour minimum wage job, juuuuuuust in case of the .000001% chance of conflict in the future will somehow prevent me from getting my post-grad position in a different city state and in a completely different area of law. OR god forbid if I can't take that one pro bono project that I might come across.

jesus. fucking. christ.

Oh, of course I forgot that age old argument: just spend less money. fucking duh. And loans, got damn. why didn't i think of that?

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Nony
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by Nony » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:47 pm

I mean, dude, it is kinda short-sighted. If you don't understand anything about professional responsibility and are questioning the duty to disclose, how are you in a position to evaluate whether this will bite you in the future? And you don't have post-grad employment until you have post-grad employment.

LawSSS2
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by LawSSS2 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:54 pm

Yeah, I guess I am big 'ole risk taker what I can say. I like to live life on the edge. the fast-track. If there's isn't a risk to my future, is it really worth the salary? that's my motto.

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pancakes3
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Re: Law Clerk at Two Jobs at Once?

Post by pancakes3 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:55 pm

this is less about the chances of it actually being a conflict, or getting caught, or biting you in the future and more about you behaving ethically and choosing to err on the side of caution when caught in grey areas (this is not a grey area fyi)

i mean, you clearly have reservations about disclosing this to your employers despite saying repeatedly that it won't interfere with anything, so why do you have that instinct?
Last edited by pancakes3 on Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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