WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Discuss comparisons of various school choices and the various metrics that inform them, including rankings, student life, location, etc.
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Eurapoopin
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by Eurapoopin » Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:34 pm

frozen_tundra9 wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:38 am
Any 2 or 3Ls have outlines or advice they'd be willing to share for the LRM final? I've been ignoring that class for too long and am now flailing...
http://wurd.podbean.com this audio outline from a student who graduated a couple years back helped me when I was a 1L.

EDIT: deleted cautionary note since it's a take home p/f final now. Enjoy, 1Ls.
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lawshark1
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by lawshark1 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:49 pm

Does WUSTL give support to students looking for summer associate--> associate positions for biglaw in NYC? I read somewhere that WUSTL doesn't really have an OCI for students looking for NYC opportunities and that you would need to travel to/from NYC for interviews and networking events, and was wondering how true those statements were.

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:42 pm

lawshark1 wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:49 pm
Does WUSTL give support to students looking for summer associate--> associate positions for biglaw in NYC? I read somewhere that WUSTL doesn't really have an OCI for students looking for NYC opportunities and that you would need to travel to/from NYC for interviews and networking events, and was wondering how true those statements were.
I cannot speak to NYC specifically or OCI really as a 1L other than that I know a few older students who as 1Ls obtained NYC SAs and were reimbursed by the firms for callbacks (I think this is standard, i was also reimbursed), but 1L SAs are rare and it seems you're asking in regards to 2L OCI.

I know that’s not very helpful at all - I only have TX knowledge as that is where I am headed - but I am sure an older student with OCI experience can chime in. If you have any specific firms in mind, NALP tells you where those firms interview on campus, but I'm not sure how accurate/updated the information is.

I'll call in IPeeLaw because he is an active poster and seems very knowledgable:
IPeeLaw wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:27 pm
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BearCat
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by BearCat » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:04 pm

How OCI functions is rather complicated so it would take a huge wall of text to fully explain it. Yes, if you want NYC, you will certainly have to make a trip out to NYC on your own dime to interview with law firms. The firms all gather at a hotel and spend 2-3 days interview students from Wash U, Vanderbilt, Cornell, and Tulane or something. This is organized by CCD, so I guess that is the "support" from Career Services. There's a website where you bid and everything.

This really isn't something an 0L needs to be overly concerned about since the cost of traveling to NY is negligible in the grand scheme of things. It's a few hundred bucks. Just concern yourself with whether the cost of attendance is justifiable given the risk that you won't get the job you want.

If you just want a NYC job, probably being in the top 1/3 with good interviewing skills is sufficient. If you have a science background and are willing to do patent pros (patent lit will be hard), there's more room for error in your GPA.

If your grades aren't as high and you really, really want to be in NYC, you might have to somehow make your way there to "network," and I know that it's worked out for at least one person, but I don't know much about that so I can't speak to it.

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howdystopian
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by howdystopian » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:23 pm

Potentially a really dumb question: without knowing much about St. Louis, is it possible that some of the jobs reported in Illinois are in the STL area rather than Chicago? I still don’t fully understand where the WashU alumni network is concentrated

lawboye
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by lawboye » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:57 pm

howdystopian wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:23 pm
Potentially a really dumb question: without knowing much about St. Louis, is it possible that some of the jobs reported in Illinois are in the STL area rather than Chicago? I still don’t fully understand where the WashU alumni network is concentrated
I specifically asked this question during my interview and was told that those IL jobs are overwhelmingly Chicago, not Metro East. Can't say I have any firsthand knowledge on it though.

I will say that although Southern Illinois has a decent population, it's not exactly a center of commerce. Then again, I do know Madison County is famous (or infamous) as a hotbed for litigation. No idea where those attorneys practice from, though. They might all be carpetbaggers.

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:16 am

SIUC funnels into the Metro East and Southern Illinois. A lot of locals attend to work at their father/uncle/brother’s firm or to get a local gig as a PD/prosecutor. I can only think of one attorney in the Metro East who is a Wash U alum; all the rest are SIU grads.

LastLSAT
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Post by LastLSAT » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:47 pm

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BearCat
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by BearCat » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:49 pm

LastLSAT wrote:
Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:47 pm
Would you guys go to WUSTL for free if you had the option to go to HYS at sticker? What about CCN at sticker?

Also, why doesn't WUSTL publish salary data? This seems kind of sketchy to me, as you can find 25th/50th/75th data in public & private sector for most other peer schools. Is this because WUSTL grads can't land high paying jobs?

I will probably be going to WUSTL next year and think that it is a fantastic law school, so please don't take any of this as an attack. I am just curious what the student perception of its value is, since they throw out so much money to well-qualified applicants.
As far as I'm aware, many of the T14 don't publish salary data. I don't know why WUSTL doesn't, but LST has the data with respect to biglaw jobs (something north of 30% of grads get biglaw jobs).

That said, I will note that a lot of those biglaw jobs are in secondary markets where the market pay is less than 180k (135k in STL, for example, and 145k in Detroit I believe). Those salaries are really high for the cost of living of those cities though, so I wouldn't count those as non-high paying jobs.

Whether you should take CCN sticker over WUSTL for free depends on your goals. I'd say HYS sticker is generally better than WUSTL for free, but not in every single case.

LastLSAT
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Post by LastLSAT » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:23 pm

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Wed Mar 21, 2018 11:03 pm

If I could do it over, I would take HYS at sticker over Wash U for free. Probably not CCN at sticker, though. Kinda depends on what sticker is for you, though, and if you’d qualify for need based aid/have significant savings/whatever, and obviously what your goals are.

I wouldn’t take either at sticker or close to it for Kansas City big law, though.

lolwat
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by lolwat » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:15 am

This question kind of crossed over from the other thread but I think the most relevant question here for you current WUSTL peeps is how well the school places in Kansas City for those targeting that market. I think this kind of situation is like the 1% where taking HYS over free WUSTL is not the right call.

MaxMcMann
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by MaxMcMann » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:28 am

Question: I'm a New Yorker who is dead set on coming back to NY, preferably for biglaw but I'm also realistic that while I can work hard I can't guarantee the grades I need for that.

WUSTL is the highest ranked school I got into that gave me very good money. My alternatives are GWU and BU. BU seems fairly well respected in NY and GWU is somewhat respected, but honestly a lot of my mentors (one of whom is an M&A hiring partner at a V50) were surprised Wash U even has a law school - which makes me sweat about the prospect of going there.

Has anyone tried to attain NY from WUSTL? What was your experience?

BearCat
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by BearCat » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:00 pm

MaxMcMann wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:28 am
Question: I'm a New Yorker who is dead set on coming back to NY, preferably for biglaw but I'm also realistic that while I can work hard I can't guarantee the grades I need for that.

WUSTL is the highest ranked school I got into that gave me very good money. My alternatives are GWU and BU. BU seems fairly well respected in NY and GWU is somewhat respected, but honestly a lot of my mentors (one of whom is an M&A hiring partner at a V50) were surprised Wash U even has a law school - which makes me sweat about the prospect of going there.

Has anyone tried to attain NY from WUSTL? What was your experience?
Wash U definitely places better in NY than GWU, don't know about BU. That data is available in each school's 509 reports. I will say that all of the top 20 vault firms interview Wash U students through the NY interview program (excepting Wachtell, Williams and Connolly--which isn't a NY firm, Boies Schiller, and maybe one or two others). It's possible your v50 mentor's firm doesn't interview at Wash U, but that doesn't mean other v50 firms won't.

Twombly
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by Twombly » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:13 am

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:20 pm

lolwat wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:15 am
This question kind of crossed over from the other thread but I think the most relevant question here for you current WUSTL peeps is how well the school places in Kansas City for those targeting that market. I think this kind of situation is like the 1% where taking HYS over free WUSTL is not the right call.
I don't know about Kansas City placement other than anecdotal evidence of a few people I know who are from KC and successfully targeted KC. UMKC and Mizzou also have people wanting KC so there's competition there (again, anecdotal evidence of friends I know at those schools). I would say that if you are either 100% STL or 100% KC then yeah, it's the one situation where I'd recommend WUSTL for free.

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par283
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by par283 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:03 pm

Can anyone speak to the competitiveness of the student body? I visited ND and everyone seems a lot more collegial.

LastLSAT
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Post by LastLSAT » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:27 pm

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LastLSAT
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Post by LastLSAT » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:31 pm

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:19 am

LastLSAT wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:31 pm
Are there any profs at WUSTL that you all would recommend avoiding at all costs? Are there any profs that are especially beloved? I sat in on a course with Drobak and thought he was quite impressive...

What is your general impression of the average quality of instruction at WUSTL?
I think the quality of instruction is high, other than the fact that sometimes visiting professors teach 1L courses and they're very hit or miss. Torts with Tamanaha was the best class I've taken, and I feel horrible for those who take torts with anyone else. (You don't choose your professors during 1L). Even if you don't have him for torts, you should look at some of his work - he has written a book about the law school scam. I have criminal law with Osgood and love him. I didn't have Drobak but friends who did liked him a lot.

I haven't had any bad professors so far. There's a notorious 1L Contracts professor that I didn't have that some people absolutely despise and some people love so it may be a personality thing.
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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:20 am

par283 wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:03 pm
Can anyone speak to the competitiveness of the student body? I visited ND and everyone seems a lot more collegial.
Really seems to depend on the class.

Some sections seem more gunner-y than others, and with how many people come here for the $$$ (turning down in some cases very top schools in the process), you're going to have some people who think they're too good to be here. Overall though, my experience has been great. I made close friends early on and stuck with them, so I can't really speak to the social scene as a whole.

Twombly
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by Twombly » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:15 pm

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Twombly
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by Twombly » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:18 pm

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BearCat
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by BearCat » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:32 pm

I had Greenfield and I loved him. He's not what you'd call a "chill" or "cool" professor but he is extremely effective in teaching the material and he is very clear about what he wants out of your answers and on the exam.
Twombly wrote:
Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:18 pm
par283 wrote:
Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:03 pm
Can anyone speak to the competitiveness of the student body? I visited ND and everyone seems a lot more collegial.
It is very collegial here. There are a handful of people who like to strut around and may talk loudly about their scholarship or how well they did on the midterm. Some in the top of the class are very open and obnoxious about their ranking. These people are in the minority. Most students who range from lower half, median, to top 10% are kind, humble, hardworking, and are grateful to be here.
Are you a 2L or a 3L? I only know one person who's at the "top of the class" (like top 5%?) and I found out through some nosy prying and word of mouth. I'm a 3L. I also don't know who's at the top of their class at all for 2Ls. I mean, I have guesses, but I haven't heard talk of rankings.

It really just depends on who you surround yourself with. Every law school will have gunnery people and chill people.

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Sat Mar 24, 2018 8:46 pm

I'm a 1L and literally know the grades of my two very closest friends and vice versa. Some people I guess you can make a general guess due to summer job but I have heard absolutely zero scholarship/rank/grades talk. Again, I stick to my group of friends though, so if people are loudly discussing it in the courtyard or something I would have no clue. I only know the general grades of 2Ls/3Ls who have mentored me.

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