WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Discuss comparisons of various school choices and the various metrics that inform them, including rankings, student life, location, etc.
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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:36 am

IPeeLaw wrote:
Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:44 pm
Just to clarify, top 25% is definitely not a requirement for biglaw from WUSTL. I have friends who were top 1/3 and got market paying biglaw everywhere from Texas to NYC. But you'd need to be in the top 1/3 to not feel like you're really under the gun come OCI. It's possible for people outside the top 1/3 to get biglaw, and they do, but it takes a lot more luck/networking/luck/luck.
+1. I didn’t mean to imply top 25% was requirement by using it as an example that you can’t bank on certain grades.

Also if you’re say a major splitter and your choices are WUSTL with a significant scholarship v. a T14 with little to no money, I wouldn’t ever recommend that you take out an extra $100-200k because you are big law or bust. I just would reflect on how unhappy you would be if you ended up unable to obtain that goal and even if going to law school in general is worth it.

borigh
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by borigh » Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:10 am

Just got accepted Friday, 17 days after I applied, in a whirlwind romance. I think WUSTL will likely be the best I do, as an extreme splitter who does care about money.

Anyway, my main/only concern about St. Louis is getting around. I actually possess a car, but it's in eastern NY, and I'm not positive it would survive the journey. Beyond that, I've only lived in NYC and Boston, and my memories of parking in a major city are all traumatic and expensive. Do I need to bring the vehicle? Should I expect to pay $750 for that parking pass, or chance it with offsite parking?

Please send the admit committee vibes not to skimp on the $ for me! I'd love to throw down a deposit and meet you fine folks.

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:07 pm

borigh wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:10 am
Just got accepted Friday, 17 days after I applied, in a whirlwind romance. I think WUSTL will likely be the best I do, as an extreme splitter who does care about money.

Anyway, my main/only concern about St. Louis is getting around. I actually possess a car, but it's in eastern NY, and I'm not positive it would survive the journey. Beyond that, I've only lived in NYC and Boston, and my memories of parking in a major city are all traumatic and expensive. Do I need to bring the vehicle? Should I expect to pay $750 for that parking pass, or chance it with offsite parking?

Please send the admit committee vibes not to skimp on the $ for me! I'd love to throw down a deposit and meet you fine folks.
i answered the car question up thread and in my experience/the experience of my classmates, it is absolutely worth it to have a car. public transport just isn’t great here and not having a car is doable but can be an added annoyance/hassle on a day to day basis. you can certainly get to class and back without one but for errands, going home between classes, etc. it would be incredibly annoying to not have a car.

the parking pass puts you right next to the law school. i have the parking pass and it is worth it to me. with early classes i would be waking up a half hour earlier to use off campus parking and screw that. however i know people who use off campus parking just fine. i hate feeling as if i am wasting time and have a longer commute than most anyway so it was really a personal preference for me that made it worth the money, but plenty do not purchase it and successfully use off campus parking.
Last edited by waldorf on Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Eurapoopin
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by Eurapoopin » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:28 pm

I own a car and didn't pay for the parking pass ever. I either took the metro link, which you get free passes for, or I parked my car north of campus and walked about 8 minutes to the building. I like walking and I like public transportation, so that wasn't a huge deal to me. Completely depends on personal preference.

St. Louis has surprisingly good public transportation to an extent, and you can probably make sure you live somewhere that doesn't absolutely require you to own a car. Having said that, I think it would absolutely suck living here without one just on a day to day convenience standpoint. It's not New York City or Boston where you can get by on public transportation alone.

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par283
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by par283 » Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:20 pm

waldorf wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:07 pm
borigh wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:10 am
Just got accepted Friday, 17 days after I applied, in a whirlwind romance. I think WUSTL will likely be the best I do, as an extreme splitter who does care about money.

Anyway, my main/only concern about St. Louis is getting around. I actually possess a car, but it's in eastern NY, and I'm not positive it would survive the journey. Beyond that, I've only lived in NYC and Boston, and my memories of parking in a major city are all traumatic and expensive. Do I need to bring the vehicle? Should I expect to pay $750 for that parking pass, or chance it with offsite parking?

Please send the admit committee vibes not to skimp on the $ for me! I'd love to throw down a deposit and meet you fine folks.
i answered the car question up thread and in my experience/the experience of my classmates, it is absolutely worth it to have a car. public transport just isn’t great here and not having a car is doable but can be an added annoyance/hassle on a day to day basis. you can certainly get to class and back without one but for errands, going home between classes, etc. it would be incredibly annoying to not have a car.

the parking pass puts you right next to the law school. i have the parking pass and it is worth it to me. with early classes i would be waking up a half hour earlier to use off campus parking and screw that. however i know people who use off campus parking just fine. i hate feeling as if i am wasting time and have a longer commute than most anyway so it was really a personal preference for me that made it worth the money, but plenty do not purchase it and successfully use off campus parking.
Thanks Waldorf! Do you know how difficult it is to get a parking pass? Is it competitive or does pretty much everyone that applies for one gets it?

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:14 pm

par283 wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:20 pm
waldorf wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:07 pm
borigh wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:10 am
Just got accepted Friday, 17 days after I applied, in a whirlwind romance. I think WUSTL will likely be the best I do, as an extreme splitter who does care about money.

Anyway, my main/only concern about St. Louis is getting around. I actually possess a car, but it's in eastern NY, and I'm not positive it would survive the journey. Beyond that, I've only lived in NYC and Boston, and my memories of parking in a major city are all traumatic and expensive. Do I need to bring the vehicle? Should I expect to pay $750 for that parking pass, or chance it with offsite parking?

Please send the admit committee vibes not to skimp on the $ for me! I'd love to throw down a deposit and meet you fine folks.
i answered the car question up thread and in my experience/the experience of my classmates, it is absolutely worth it to have a car. public transport just isn’t great here and not having a car is doable but can be an added annoyance/hassle on a day to day basis. you can certainly get to class and back without one but for errands, going home between classes, etc. it would be incredibly annoying to not have a car.

the parking pass puts you right next to the law school. i have the parking pass and it is worth it to me. with early classes i would be waking up a half hour earlier to use off campus parking and screw that. however i know people who use off campus parking just fine. i hate feeling as if i am wasting time and have a longer commute than most anyway so it was really a personal preference for me that made it worth the money, but plenty do not purchase it and successfully use off campus parking.
Thanks Waldorf! Do you know how difficult it is to get a parking pass? Is it competitive or does pretty much everyone that applies for one gets it?
So apparently there is a lottery system? I received an email in July asking if I wanted a parking pass. I said yes, and then I received an email in August telling me where and when to come pick up my parking pass. Some of my friends, on the other hand, had to get on a waitlist, but they eventually received passes. (This is for on campus parking, by the way). I don’t know how/why so maybe an older student can speak to this.
Last edited by waldorf on Wed Aug 28, 2019 10:52 pm, edited 3 times in total.

BearCat
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by BearCat » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:27 pm

I can explain why the lottery. The school began a very ambitious construction project which made a huge parking lot on the other side of campus inaccessible (they lost like 2000 parking spots or something). These spots will return when construction is done, but for now, the total available spots for parking is drastically reduced. This caused a big stir and a lot of complaints with the university administration (unrelated to law school administration).

This year, they initially had a lottery where some people got parking permits and others got put on a waitlist. After a ton of complaining, everybody ho was still on the waitlist got a permit. I don't know if this means they'll do away with the lottery system in the future or if they'll simply hand out more permits. There's also been a lot of discussion and push (from deans of various schools) towards allowing people to share parking permits (which is currently not allowed I believe). That should happen by next year.

But yes, parking will be harder than it normally would because of this construction.

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par283
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by par283 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:08 am

This is helpful. Thanks!

lawboye
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by lawboye » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:54 pm

How does the calculus for WashU change for people who are from St. Louis and want to practice in St. Louis? So much of the discussion online is (understandably) aimed at people who have never been to St. Louis and seemingly have no desire to practice there. (For example, the poll on the C/O '21 thread right now has 7% of respondents wanting to practice law in St. Louis after graduating.) Does being a native make landing a job at a top firm in St. Louis a much surer bet?

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:47 am

lawboye wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:54 pm
How does the calculus for WashU change for people who are from St. Louis and want to practice in St. Louis? So much of the discussion online is (understandably) aimed at people who have never been to St. Louis and seemingly have no desire to practice there. (For example, the poll on the C/O '21 thread right now has 7% of respondents wanting to practice law in St. Louis after graduating.) Does being a native make landing a job at a top firm in St. Louis a much surer bet?
Yes, depending on what you define as native. If you grew up here, have family here, etc. and want to work at a firm, strong ties will help make up for eh grades. For example, from what i have seen, someone who is top 15% with zero ties other than coming here for school v. someone who is maybe top 40% (i have even seen median) with strong ties (high school, family, undergrad nearby, etc.) —> the one with the ties will get the job. St. Louis is very, very insular and very ties sensitive. Being from the area and having a strong network here will help a lot. It is certainly by no means a sure bet, as there are fewer spots to go around with only seven big law firms, but yes, ties help in St. Louis a lot. Just be sure you want to be here for good.

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howdystopian
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by howdystopian » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:46 pm

I toured the school this week and really enjoyed it but realize that probably isn’t representative. What would a student / alum say is the worst aspect of the school?

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urmlaw18
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by urmlaw18 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:02 pm

Where can I find salary data for WASHU?

There is no salary information in LST

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:18 pm

urmlaw18 wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:02 pm
Where can I find salary data for WASHU?

There is no salary information in LST
I believe it’s not published? But someone can correct me if I am wrong.

They publish positions, but not salaries.
http://law.wustl.edu/career_services/em ... y-2017.pdf

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:21 pm

howdystopian wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:46 pm
I toured the school this week and really enjoyed it but realize that probably isn’t representative. What would a student / alum say is the worst aspect of the school?
My personal opinion would out me because i was very vocal about it and it’s pretty specific.

Other than that, I can’t think of a *worst* aspect. The facilities are great, faculty is great. There's a plethora of organizations to get involved in according to your interests. I enjoy St. Louis as a city to attend law school in. Older students and alum are very willing to help and give great advice. CCD is meh but that’s true at all law schools, and if you’re targeting a unique (to Wash U) market like I am, seek out older students who successfully did so. CCD also does provide a lot of resources even if a lot of them themselves aren’t always the most helpful.

Actually, one thing I dislike is something I didn’t know to think about when making my decision. Wash U doesn't have a lottery OCI system at all and is completely preselect (a consideration for those who are big law or bust).
Last edited by waldorf on Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lawboye
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by lawboye » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:06 pm

waldorf wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:21 pm
One, no lottery OCI system (a consideration for those who are big law or bust).
Can you elaborate a little on this? What is a lottery OCI system? Why would that be good or bad?

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:36 pm

lawboye wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:06 pm
waldorf wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:21 pm
One, no lottery OCI system (a consideration for those who are big law or bust).
Can you elaborate a little on this? What is a lottery OCI system? Why would that be good or bad?
Basically, in a preselect system, firms choose who to interview after seeing your transcript, resume, etc. Obviously, this favors those at the top - you are only chosen for an interview if the firm chooses you.

A lottery system (as I understand it, but I could be slightly off) means that during OCI, all interview spots for all firms are filled based on a lottery system. Students rank, or bid, based on how badly they want to interview with a firm and students are given interviews based on those bids. There are bidding strategies and whatnot that go into this, but basically, the concept is that all students regardless of grades get a fair shot at securing an interview.

I believe, but don’t quote me on this, that most (if not all) of the T14 has a lottery system, and then some of the T20 has say, 70% preselect and 30% lottery. Wash U used to be part lottery but now it is all preselect. Obviously, the better your school, the better your chance at securing an interview and offer regardless of the OCI system used, but there’s a lot to be said for the way a lottery system gets your foot in the door.

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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by BearCat » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:59 pm

waldorf wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:36 pm
lawboye wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:06 pm
waldorf wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:21 pm
One, no lottery OCI system (a consideration for those who are big law or bust).
Can you elaborate a little on this? What is a lottery OCI system? Why would that be good or bad?
Basically, in a preselect system, firms choose who to interview after seeing your transcript, resume, etc. Obviously, this favors those at the top - you are only chosen for an interview if the firm chooses you.

A lottery system (as I understand it, but I could be slightly off) means that during OCI, all interview spots for all firms are filled based on a lottery system. Students rank, or bid, based on how badly they want to interview with a firm and students are given interviews based on those bids. There are bidding strategies and whatnot that go into this, but basically, the concept is that all students regardless of grades get a fair shot at securing an interview.

I believe, but don’t quote me on this, that most (if not all) of the T14 has a lottery system, and then some of the T20 has say, 70% preselect and 30% lottery. Wash U used to be part lottery but now it is all preselect. Obviously, the better your school, the better your chance at securing an interview and offer regardless of the OCI system used, but there’s a lot to be said for the way a lottery system gets your foot in the door.
This is correct. A lottery system lets anybody get an interview with any firm. For example, a median student at a lottery school could bid Wachtell 1st and likely get an interview (your chances of an interview are equal to everyone else who bid them #1, regardless of GPA). However, if you walk into the interview with a median GPA, you will get laughed out of the room. So people at lottery schools have to be very strategic about their bid list, and their CCD keeps a record of GPA/offer rates so students know which firms they should bid highest. Students at a lottery system can still direct apply to firms, so if you're #1 at Columbia and really want Wachtell but don't get an OCI interview with them via lottery, you can still just send them your resume.

Preselect is simpler. You bid any and all firms you would want to interview with, they see your resume, and then they decide if they want to offer you an interview or not. This results in a "feast-or-famine" situation where students at the top get interviews with almost every firm the bid and students at the bottom get no interviews. This is inefficient because a top student will only accept 1 offer--most of those interview slots are then "wasted" on them and it would be better to give them to other students (the same way it's inefficient to give 10% of humans a ton of food that they waste and like 30% of humans no food).

However, WUSTL has to do preselect because otherwise firms might not come to OCI. Firms like preselect because they don't want to waste time interviewing someone whose resume they find unimpressive on the off chance that they give a bomb interview. So having a full preselect system is an incentive to get firms to come interview.

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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by BearCat » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:03 am

howdystopian wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:46 pm
I toured the school this week and really enjoyed it but realize that probably isn’t representative. What would a student / alum say is the worst aspect of the school?
I really like the school and I think the administration has taken major steps forward and tried to improve a ton of things. (waldorf is a 1L who was not around to witness how much worse certain things were in past years). The admin is taking serious steps towards listening to students.

The parking thing is a pain, but that'll be solved in like a year or two.

Some visiting professors really suck and WUSTL should not let visiting professors teach 1L courses.

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:30 am

IPeeLaw wrote:
Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:03 am
howdystopian wrote:
Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:46 pm
I toured the school this week and really enjoyed it but realize that probably isn’t representative. What would a student / alum say is the worst aspect of the school?
I really like the school and I think the administration has taken major steps forward and tried to improve a ton of things. (waldorf is a 1L who was not around to witness how much worse certain things were in past years). The admin is taking serious steps towards listening to students.

The parking thing is a pain, but that'll be solved in like a year or two.

Some visiting professors really suck and WUSTL should not let visiting professors teach 1L courses.
yeah i have heard about the admin, and they have definitely seemingly improved. i think after this year they’ll be even better; obviously a compilation of several years of upset students is a motivator.

i lucked out on not getting visiting profs but a couple friends did and were miserable, but i am not sure how common it is across the board at law schools to have visiting professors. it may be a general problem.

to add to the lottery/preselect distinction:

basically, a t14 is saying: “if you want the privilege of hiring our students, then you have to give all of them an equal chance at getting an interview.” a t20 is saying: “to incentivize you to interview our students, we will let you select who to interview so you aren’t wasting your time.”

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Meelo
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by Meelo » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:01 pm

Anyone here admitted off of the waitlist? My biggest thing with WashU (and really any school I'm waitlisted for) is lack of money offered if accepted off the waitlist. I can't find a FAQ on their site about WL'd people.

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waldorf
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by waldorf » Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:23 am

Meelo wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:01 pm
Anyone here admitted off of the waitlist? My biggest thing with WashU (and really any school I'm waitlisted for) is lack of money offered if accepted off the waitlist. I can't find a FAQ on their site about WL'd people.
i have no idea, i am sorry. i was not waitlisted personally and haven’t heard anyone who was openly talk about their situation. wash u is notoriously generous with scholarship money, though, so your chances at money off the waitlist may be slightly higher here than elsewhere.

lawboye
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by lawboye » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:04 pm

Thoughts on PI (especially something like impact litigation/non-profit advocacy work) from WashU? This comment got me thinking, wonder how many people agree:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1171#p57529

"I don't know how WUSTL does for impact lit, but I know that the law school's culture revolves heavily around biglaw/private practice. There aren't many people here interested in doing impact lit or are particularly PI-minded. I know most everyone in the top 10%, and not a single one of them even applied to impact litigation jobs--everyone went to biglaw, fed gov, or clerkships (with the intent of going into law firms). The CCD here is also not particularly helpful for someone who wants to do impact lit. I don't think I've heard the name of a single impact lit organization apart from the ACLU depart from the lips of anybody within the walls of the law school (in the context of I-know-someone-working-there or we-have-a-speaker-from-there or I'd-like-to-work-there)."

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sev
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by sev » Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:23 pm

Meelo wrote:
Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:01 pm
Anyone here admitted off of the waitlist? My biggest thing with WashU (and really any school I'm waitlisted for) is lack of money offered if accepted off the waitlist. I can't find a FAQ on their site about WL'd people.
Stranger put this together (thread's in the Application Process forum I think):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... dxtOujYiK4

BearCat
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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by BearCat » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:11 pm

lawboye wrote:
Tue Mar 06, 2018 12:04 pm
Thoughts on PI (especially something like impact litigation/non-profit advocacy work) from WashU? This comment got me thinking, wonder how many people agree:

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1171#p57529

"I don't know how WUSTL does for impact lit, but I know that the law school's culture revolves heavily around biglaw/private practice. There aren't many people here interested in doing impact lit or are particularly PI-minded. I know most everyone in the top 10%, and not a single one of them even applied to impact litigation jobs--everyone went to biglaw, fed gov, or clerkships (with the intent of going into law firms). The CCD here is also not particularly helpful for someone who wants to do impact lit. I don't think I've heard the name of a single impact lit organization apart from the ACLU depart from the lips of anybody within the walls of the law school (in the context of I-know-someone-working-there or we-have-a-speaker-from-there or I'd-like-to-work-there)."
I'd like to modify the bolded in my post in the other thread. There are lots of people who are generally "PI minded" in that they want to fight for social justice, but there just isn't as much respect for prestigious PI at the school as I would like to see. I mean, maybe I'm part of the problem, since I'm going into private practice, but people here brag about getting biglaw a little too much. "I got a job at ACLU!" will get a "oh, that's nice."

As for CCD, honestly, prestigious PI is a luxury that T20 schools typically can't afford because they're too busy trying to keep their BL/FC numbers up.

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Re: WUSTL Students and Grads Taking Questions

Post by frozen_tundra9 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:38 am

Any 2 or 3Ls have outlines or advice they'd be willing to share for the LRM final? I've been ignoring that class for too long and am now flailing...

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