UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Discuss comparisons of various school choices and the various metrics that inform them, including rankings, student life, location, etc.

Which one?

NYU $$$$
23
82%
Penn $$$$
5
18%
UVA $$$$
0
No votes
Duke $$$$
0
No votes
Harvard at sitcker
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 28

lolwat
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Re: Duke it out: Duke $$$$ vs. Virginia $$$$ vs. Penn $$$$ vs. H

Post by lolwat » Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:07 am

This is some super informative stuff.

I said UVA before, but honestly, whichever you choose, you'll likely have no regrets.

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Dusty 2020
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Re: Duke it out: Duke $$$$ vs. Virginia $$$$ vs. Penn $$$$ vs. H

Post by Dusty 2020 » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:26 pm

Chances are good that OCI at every T14 is equally as strong.

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George Marshall
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Re: Duke it out: Duke $$$$ vs. Virginia $$$$ vs. Penn $$$$ vs. H

Post by George Marshall » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:08 am

Throwing a question out to the crowd in light of the poll results - Would Duke be an irrational or hard to justify choice here? The only tangible area where I see Duke lagging behind Virginia and Penn is the USNews ranking, and the school has greatly impressed me in a few ways. It's clearly not the favorite here, but is this because Virginia and Penn have a slight historical edge or is there more to the picture?

Also, thank you all for your responses. This community is truly a gem.

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Stranger
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Re: Duke it out: Duke $$$$ vs. Virginia $$$$ vs. Penn $$$$ vs. H

Post by Stranger » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:59 am

Duke represents the balance of community styles between the big city in Philly and a lovely semi-remote college town in Charlottesville. Durham is fairly pedestrian and bike friendly, but doesn't quite have big city public transit (you can get around on it, but don't plan to do so quickly, especially if you're trying to visit Raleigh or Chapel Hill). Durham has managed to capture the bulk of the better mid sized concerts and the plays that tour through the area, and the bits of town around the AAA ballpark, performing arts center, and the old tobacco facilities converted to modern uses are quite lovely for an evening out.

The schools match so closely in outcomes that it would be hard to criticize choosing any of them if you felt a better fit there. Where do you think you'll be most comfortable learning? Where are you excited about the educational opportunities? You're getting a world class education for next to no cost no matter which you choose, and the reality is, your reasons are going to be mostly personal ones. There are great folks from my cycle at each of these schools, and I've heard no regrets from any of them.

lolwat
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Re: Duke it out: Duke $$$$ vs. Virginia $$$$ vs. Penn $$$$ vs. H

Post by lolwat » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:11 am

Nothing wrong with choosing Duke here.

I think whichever one you choose, you likely won't be looking back and wishing you chose a different school.

Ilike2read
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Re: Duke it out: Duke $$$$ vs. Virginia $$$$ vs. Penn $$$$ vs. H

Post by Ilike2read » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:38 pm

I wonder if you could negotiate guaranteed tickets to Duke Basketball games. Then it's a clear winner.

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Dusty 2020
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Re: Duke it out: Duke $$$$ vs. Virginia $$$$ vs. Penn $$$$ vs. H

Post by Dusty 2020 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:26 pm

If the poll had been simplified to, is Duke a good choice for LS.....sure!

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George Marshall
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Re: Duke it out: Duke $$$$ vs. Virginia $$$$ vs. Penn $$$$ vs. H

Post by George Marshall » Wed Mar 13, 2019 8:47 pm

Stranger wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:59 am
Duke represents the balance of community styles between the big city in Philly and a lovely semi-remote college town in Charlottesville. Durham is fairly pedestrian and bike friendly, but doesn't quite have big city public transit (you can get around on it, but don't plan to do so quickly, especially if you're trying to visit Raleigh or Chapel Hill). Durham has managed to capture the bulk of the better mid sized concerts and the plays that tour through the area, and the bits of town around the AAA ballpark, performing arts center, and the old tobacco facilities converted to modern uses are quite lovely for an evening out.

The schools match so closely in outcomes that it would be hard to criticize choosing any of them if you felt a better fit there. Where do you think you'll be most comfortable learning? Where are you excited about the educational opportunities? You're getting a world class education for next to no cost no matter which you choose, and the reality is, your reasons are going to be mostly personal ones. There are great folks from my cycle at each of these schools, and I've heard no regrets from any of them.
Thank you! Awesome perspective - Great stuff to keep in mind.

Lolwat - Thank you as well! Glad to hear.

Ilike2read - Hah, that would definitely seal the deal.

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Nebby
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Re: Duke it out: Duke $$$$ vs. Virginia $$$$ vs. Penn $$$$ vs. H

Post by Nebby » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:51 pm

Dusty 2020 wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:11 pm
The objective is simple, PICK ONE. Clearly, most people pick PENN. Could be for several reasons or perhaps just a single rationale; consistently a higher ranking; IVY; class size; lower unemployment outcome; location; and so on. Not that complicated.
Keep your unsupported opinions out of threads of consequence plz. Keep it to unsupported political musings, if you must at all

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George Marshall
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by George Marshall » Mon Mar 18, 2019 5:24 pm

UPDATED - Got the Vanderbilt at NYU. Totally shocked. I have until April 1 to decide. Created a new poll. Please help, friends, I am so lost.
Also please let me know if the CoL for NYU is inaccurate. My calculations were a bit rushed. If no on campus housing, it might be like $100k.

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Nebby
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by Nebby » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:00 pm

I feel like NYU is the best

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icechicken
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by icechicken » Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:16 pm

Yeah, these are all great choices but a full-ride at NYU seems pretty close to perfect for your goals. The ~$30k margin isn't pocket change, though, so I'd take a hard look at the financial situation (especially since you're getting help from your family) before pulling the trigger.

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George Marshall
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by George Marshall » Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:58 pm

Nebby wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:00 pm
I feel like NYU is the best
icechicken wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:16 pm
Yeah, these are all great choices but a full-ride at NYU seems pretty close to perfect for your goals. The ~$30k margin isn't pocket change, though, so I'd take a hard look at the financial situation (especially since you're getting help from your family) before pulling the trigger.
Thank you both. Is this because of NYU's greater PI community/opportunities/reputation? Is a lower fed clerkship placement rate something I should be concerned about?

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icechicken
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by icechicken » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:27 am

NYU gives you a substantially better shot at the unicorny end of your goals range (Skadden/EJW fellowships, academia, etc), NYC is better for hustling since a lot of the private-side firms you want are there (I believe Nebby can speak more to this), and yeah, culture counts for something too.

My impression is that NYU's clerkship numbers are depressed somewhat from leaning liberal on the one hand (so the FedSoc pipeline is weaker than at other T14s) and being in the heart of the 2nd Circuit (CLS has the same problem) on the other. Aside from being competitive, the 2nd Circuit also seems to have a bias towards working before clerking, which skews the LST percentage - NYU claims on their website that ~20% of graduates clerk at some point. I'd be surprised if being ranked X% in your class at NYU puts you in a significantly worse position for clerkships than being ranked X% at a lower-ranked school.

Edit: just took a list at this year's Skadden Fellows by way of example: 5/28 went to NYU, 0 from UVA, 0 from Duke, 0 from Penn, 3 from Harvard. I'm pretty sure that's an even more extreme pro-NYU skew than normal but there you go.

lolwat
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by lolwat » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:45 am

I'd say NYU as far as the pick goes, but I can't really speak to the fed clerkship placement rate. If it's self-selection, being in the 2nd Circuit, or what.

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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by necho2 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:03 pm

Yeah 30k for a better shot at the unicorn-side of your career goals looks eminently reasonable. My vote's for NYU.

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Slytherpuff
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by Slytherpuff » Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:22 pm

Yep, NYU now that you have the full ride there. Congratulations!

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George Marshall
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by George Marshall » Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:28 am

icechicken wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:27 am
NYU gives you a substantially better shot at the unicorny end of your goals range (Skadden/EJW fellowships, academia, etc), NYC is better for hustling since a lot of the private-side firms you want are there (I believe Nebby can speak more to this), and yeah, culture counts for something too.

My impression is that NYU's clerkship numbers are depressed somewhat from leaning liberal on the one hand (so the FedSoc pipeline is weaker than at other T14s) and being in the heart of the 2nd Circuit (CLS has the same problem) on the other. Aside from being competitive, the 2nd Circuit also seems to have a bias towards working before clerking, which skews the LST percentage - NYU claims on their website that ~20% of graduates clerk at some point. I'd be surprised if being ranked X% in your class at NYU puts you in a significantly worse position for clerkships than being ranked X% at a lower-ranked school.

Edit: just took a list at this year's Skadden Fellows by way of example: 5/28 went to NYU, 0 from UVA, 0 from Duke, 0 from Penn, 3 from Harvard. I'm pretty sure that's an even more extreme pro-NYU skew than normal but there you go.
Thank you. Great information! Very interesting about clerking.

Lolwat, Necho, and Slytherpuff - Thank you!

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Dusty 2020
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by Dusty 2020 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:10 pm

Your col is on target, so ALL is good!

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George Marshall
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by George Marshall » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:00 am

Thank you all so much for your responses. NYU looks to be the clear winner here. One more question - In this situation, how much should fit/environment/QoL matter in comparison to material differences between the schools, such as they may exist? Is NYU the way to go barring extreme dislike of NYC, or is fit still the most important distinguishing factor here?

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Stranger
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by Stranger » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:31 am

Fit is important in that law school will be rough, and if your environment is stressing you out, your grades will likely suffer. NYU is hands down the best option for your goals, but if you would be miserable just living in NY, don't go there.

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George Marshall
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by George Marshall » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:52 am

Stranger wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:31 am
Fit is important in that law school will be rough, and if your environment is stressing you out, your grades will likely suffer. NYU is hands down the best option for your goals, but if you would be miserable just living in NY, don't go there.
I guess I'm wondering - Let's say I have a preference for a school that's not NYU. Unless that preference is very strong, is NYU the way to go? (To quote something you said upthread, "The schools match so closely in outcomes that it would be hard to criticize choosing any of them if you felt a better fit there" - Has this changed? )

Purely hypothetical - just trying to do my due diligence.

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Nebby
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by Nebby » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:26 am

Of the three, I feel like NYU will have the best public interest fit as you'll have a large community of like-minded students also interested in public interest.

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Stranger
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by Stranger » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:11 pm

George Marshall wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:52 am
Stranger wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:31 am
Fit is important in that law school will be rough, and if your environment is stressing you out, your grades will likely suffer. NYU is hands down the best option for your goals, but if you would be miserable just living in NY, don't go there.
I guess I'm wondering - Let's say I have a preference for a school that's not NYU. Unless that preference is very strong, is NYU the way to go? (To quote something you said upthread, "The schools match so closely in outcomes that it would be hard to criticize choosing any of them if you felt a better fit there" - Has this changed? )

Purely hypothetical - just trying to do my due diligence.
I'm pretty sure the three I was calling equivalent were Duke, UVA, and Penn. I stand by that. NYU is a different beast, especially for public interest, and your full ride there is almost certainly your best option. However, if New York City is your idea of Hell on earth, it's probably not the best option.

lolwat
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Re: UPDATED NYU $$$$ vs Penn $$$$ vs UVA $$$$ vs Duke $$$$ vs Harvard at Sticker

Post by lolwat » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:16 pm

George Marshall wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:52 am
Stranger wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:31 am
Fit is important in that law school will be rough, and if your environment is stressing you out, your grades will likely suffer. NYU is hands down the best option for your goals, but if you would be miserable just living in NY, don't go there.
I guess I'm wondering - Let's say I have a preference for a school that's not NYU. Unless that preference is very strong, is NYU the way to go? (To quote something you said upthread, "The schools match so closely in outcomes that it would be hard to criticize choosing any of them if you felt a better fit there" - Has this changed? )

Purely hypothetical - just trying to do my due diligence.
I'd say yes. Fit matters, but it's purely a personal thing that I don't think we can help with too much. I really do not think a school's fit matters all that much at all. Your other surroundings matter a whole lot more than the school. If you absolutely hate the idea of living in NYC and can't stand doing it for 3 years, probably no good. If you've got a SO or kids coming with you that would hate being in NYC for any amount of time, you'll probably come home from law school to a stressed out family and that won't be good for you either.

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