Columbia Students Taking Questions

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Kümmel
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Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Kümmel » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:30 pm

Because Nebby asked me to make it...

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Nebby » Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:41 pm

It wouldn't be right if I was OP. I'm OP of too many things.

jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by jbagelboy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:41 pm

Also available.

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Naguib
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Naguib » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:37 am

I have a lot of questions. How easy is it to get returning student grants? Are any of you on/know people on law review? Is it worth it for employment prospects and potential (even if long-shot) academia route? If I want to reduce commute time but not break the bank, should I go with law-exclusive UAH or find another apartment in MH? Do you know anyone who lives/lived in International House?

Thanks a lot guys for migrating the thread over!

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Nebby » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:19 am

Naguib wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:37 am
I have a lot of questions. How easy is it to get returning student grants? Are any of you on/know people on law review? Is it worth it for employment prospects and potential (even if long-shot) academia route? If I want to reduce commute time but not break the bank, should I go with law-exclusive UAH or find another apartment in MH? Do you know anyone who lives/lived in International House?

Thanks a lot guys for migrating the thread over!
I lived in Harlem with roommates and it was cheaper than what UAH/Law Housing I found offered by Columbia.

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Kümmel
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Kümmel » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:34 am

Naguib wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:37 am
I have a lot of questions. How easy is it to get returning student grants? Are any of you on/know people on law review? Is it worth it for employment prospects and potential (even if long-shot) academia route? If I want to reduce commute time but not break the bank, should I go with law-exclusive UAH or find another apartment in MH? Do you know anyone who lives/lived in International House?

Thanks a lot guys for migrating the thread over!
A lot to unpack here. What's a returning student grant? I've never heard of that so I'm going to guess non-existent at CLS? Are you a 0L? Way too early to even be thinking about law review -- but general consensus is it's worth it for the prestige in most cases, but there are a number of career tracks that won't care at all. There isn't law-exclusive UAH. There's law school housing and there's UAH. I would always say go with UAH, it's cheaper, bigger, and generally pretty close to the law school. I know no law student who lives in Ihouse, but I do know non law students there

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Bearlyalive
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Bearlyalive » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:19 am

Naguib wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:37 am
I have a lot of questions. How easy is it to get returning student grants? Are any of you on/know people on law review? Is it worth it for employment prospects and potential (even if long-shot) academia route? If I want to reduce commute time but not break the bank, should I go with law-exclusive UAH or find another apartment in MH? Do you know anyone who lives/lived in International House?

Thanks a lot guys for migrating the thread over!
For law review, a good number of my friends are on law review. I'd say that LR is a worthwhile sacrifice (b/c believe me, it is a sacrifice) if (1) you want to work in academia, (2) you want a prestigious clerkship, or (3) you want to work for a prestigious boutique or a highly competitive biglaw firm (read: basically just Wachtell).

Otherwise, the time sink just seems like its not worth it. It's 20-25 hours a week, on top of all your other law school and personal responsibilities. Every one of my LR friends seems constantly stressed-out-of-their-minds, and they have all had to skip numerous social events (and we're talking, like, hanging out once every other week with a core friend group, not nightly binge-drinking). I've talked with some people on LR who say they have maintained a reasonable balance, but I also think we have very different definitions of "balance."

There are certainly other pros: the LR outline bank is unmatched, its support group and network seem very valuable, and it does give you a noticeable bump for the most competitive jobs. And if you want to write a Note (why??), you won't be restricted to the topic of your secondary journal. Someone who has actually been on LR could give you better info here. But personally, I'm very glad that I am not on LR, and I almost feel bad for many of my friends who are.

Of course, I also think that the entire journal process is a giant scam, and would very much advise doing a secondary journal without a Note requirement if you're not gunning for the kinds of jobs outlined above. Journals are very much mindless grunt work, writing a Note is a giant pain, and you have better things you could be doing with your life.

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Naguib
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Naguib » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 pm

Kümmel wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:34 am
Naguib wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:37 am
I have a lot of questions. How easy is it to get returning student grants? Are any of you on/know people on law review? Is it worth it for employment prospects and potential (even if long-shot) academia route? If I want to reduce commute time but not break the bank, should I go with law-exclusive UAH or find another apartment in MH? Do you know anyone who lives/lived in International House?

Thanks a lot guys for migrating the thread over!
A lot to unpack here. What's a returning student grant? I've never heard of that so I'm going to guess non-existent at CLS? Are you a 0L? Way too early to even be thinking about law review -- but general consensus is it's worth it for the prestige in most cases, but there are a number of career tracks that won't care at all. There isn't law-exclusive UAH. There's law school housing and there's UAH. I would always say go with UAH, it's cheaper, bigger, and generally pretty close to the law school. I know no law student who lives in Ihouse, but I do know non law students there
Thanks for the details! Regarding the continuing students stuff Columbia’s Financial Aid website talks about renewing scholarship grants for continuing students.

It is pretty early to think about law review but I wanted to compare the experiences I’ve read about at different schools to get a feel for what sets them apart/what they have in common.

Do your friends in I-house have generally positive experiences? And thanks for the tip about UAH. That may be the way to go if you don’t think it makes a difference living around just law students.

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Kümmel
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Kümmel » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:16 pm

Naguib wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 pm
Kümmel wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:34 am
Naguib wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:37 am
I have a lot of questions. How easy is it to get returning student grants? Are any of you on/know people on law review? Is it worth it for employment prospects and potential (even if long-shot) academia route? If I want to reduce commute time but not break the bank, should I go with law-exclusive UAH or find another apartment in MH? Do you know anyone who lives/lived in International House?

Thanks a lot guys for migrating the thread over!
A lot to unpack here. What's a returning student grant? I've never heard of that so I'm going to guess non-existent at CLS? Are you a 0L? Way too early to even be thinking about law review -- but general consensus is it's worth it for the prestige in most cases, but there are a number of career tracks that won't care at all. There isn't law-exclusive UAH. There's law school housing and there's UAH. I would always say go with UAH, it's cheaper, bigger, and generally pretty close to the law school. I know no law student who lives in Ihouse, but I do know non law students there
Thanks for the details! Regarding the continuing students stuff Columbia’s Financial Aid website talks about renewing scholarship grants for continuing students.

It is pretty early to think about law review but I wanted to compare the experiences I’ve read about at different schools to get a feel for what sets them apart/what they have in common.

Do your friends in I-house have generally positive experiences? And thanks for the tip about UAH. That may be the way to go if you don’t think it makes a difference living around just law students.
Just looked up the language youre referring to. It's just form language. Everyone gets their grants renewed every year... I've never heard of a student not getting their grant renewed. It's more of a protection so that if you somehow get an outside scholly of 300k and the school doesnt want to be giving you another 300k on top of that (not that that ever happens)

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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by tinycatfriend » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:53 pm

Okay, my biggest question:

A lot of my friends (tbh, NYU students though) have harped on how toxic/competitive Columbia culture is. Is this just NYU propaganda or should I be legit concerned?

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Kümmel
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Kümmel » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:03 pm

tinycatfriend wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:53 pm
Okay, my biggest question:

A lot of my friends (tbh, NYU students though) have harped on how toxic/competitive Columbia culture is. Is this just NYU propaganda or should I be legit concerned?
lol that's classic propaganda. honestly, CLS is no more/less competitive than other law schools. If anything, NYU is more competitive since they still have B-'s part of their mandatory curve

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Bearlyalive
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Bearlyalive » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:11 pm

Kümmel wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:03 pm
tinycatfriend wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:53 pm
Okay, my biggest question:

A lot of my friends (tbh, NYU students though) have harped on how toxic/competitive Columbia culture is. Is this just NYU propaganda or should I be legit concerned?
lol that's classic propaganda. honestly, CLS is no more/less competitive than other law schools. If anything, NYU is more competitive since they still have B-'s part of their mandatory curve
Just confirming this. I have not found CLS to be a competitive culture. A few people are stingier than others about sharing their own outlines, but in general outline swaps, covering for friends (or just other classmates), study groups, etc., are very common. I've made great friends here.

Everyone knows that everyone will get a job, so while there is still stress (we're law students after all), it's self-generated rather than external.

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Naguib
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Naguib » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:21 pm

Kümmel wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:16 pm
Naguib wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:12 pm
Kümmel wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:34 am
Naguib wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:37 am
I have a lot of questions. How easy is it to get returning student grants? Are any of you on/know people on law review? Is it worth it for employment prospects and potential (even if long-shot) academia route? If I want to reduce commute time but not break the bank, should I go with law-exclusive UAH or find another apartment in MH? Do you know anyone who lives/lived in International House?

Thanks a lot guys for migrating the thread over!
A lot to unpack here. What's a returning student grant? I've never heard of that so I'm going to guess non-existent at CLS? Are you a 0L? Way too early to even be thinking about law review -- but general consensus is it's worth it for the prestige in most cases, but there are a number of career tracks that won't care at all. There isn't law-exclusive UAH. There's law school housing and there's UAH. I would always say go with UAH, it's cheaper, bigger, and generally pretty close to the law school. I know no law student who lives in Ihouse, but I do know non law students there
Thanks for the details! Regarding the continuing students stuff Columbia’s Financial Aid website talks about renewing scholarship grants for continuing students.

It is pretty early to think about law review but I wanted to compare the experiences I’ve read about at different schools to get a feel for what sets them apart/what they have in common.

Do your friends in I-house have generally positive experiences? And thanks for the tip about UAH. That may be the way to go if you don’t think it makes a difference living around just law students.
Just looked up the language youre referring to. It's just form language. Everyone gets their grants renewed every year... I've never heard of a student not getting their grant renewed. It's more of a protection so that if you somehow get an outside scholly of 300k and the school doesnt want to be giving you another 300k on top of that (not that that ever happens)
Thanks for clearing that up!

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tinycatfriend
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by tinycatfriend » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:44 pm

Kümmel wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:03 pm
tinycatfriend wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:53 pm
Okay, my biggest question:

A lot of my friends (tbh, NYU students though) have harped on how toxic/competitive Columbia culture is. Is this just NYU propaganda or should I be legit concerned?
lol that's classic propaganda. honestly, CLS is no more/less competitive than other law schools. If anything, NYU is more competitive since they still have B-'s part of their mandatory curve
Building off that - I don't know much about law school curves - what's CLS's?

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Bearlyalive
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Bearlyalive » Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:59 pm

tinycatfriend wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:44 pm
Kümmel wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:03 pm
tinycatfriend wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:53 pm
Okay, my biggest question:

A lot of my friends (tbh, NYU students though) have harped on how toxic/competitive Columbia culture is. Is this just NYU propaganda or should I be legit concerned?
lol that's classic propaganda. honestly, CLS is no more/less competitive than other law schools. If anything, NYU is more competitive since they still have B-'s part of their mandatory curve
Building off that - I don't know much about law school curves - what's CLS's?
I can't recall the exact details of the 1L curve, but for 2L (or 1L electives):
Courses: 16% A, 27% A-, 34% B+, and 20% B.
Seminars: 30% A, 37% A-, 25% B+, and 5% B.

2L professors are not strictly required to follow the curve, but 1L professors are.

I think that for 1L there were only like 6-7% As, and more like 40% Bs, but don't remember the numbers in the middle. Overall median is probably around 3.3? With Stone (honors) around a 3.41, is top 36-40% percent (numbers again rough). Kent (high honors) at 3.8 (or alternatively, more As than A-s and not more than 1 B grade) is top 3-5%, I think.

01panm
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by 01panm » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:16 am

Bearlyalive wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:59 pm
tinycatfriend wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:44 pm
Kümmel wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:03 pm
tinycatfriend wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:53 pm
Okay, my biggest question:

A lot of my friends (tbh, NYU students though) have harped on how toxic/competitive Columbia culture is. Is this just NYU propaganda or should I be legit concerned?
lol that's classic propaganda. honestly, CLS is no more/less competitive than other law schools. If anything, NYU is more competitive since they still have B-'s part of their mandatory curve
Building off that - I don't know much about law school curves - what's CLS's?
I can't recall the exact details of the 1L curve, but for 2L (or 1L electives):
Courses: 16% A, 27% A-, 34% B+, and 20% B.
Seminars: 30% A, 37% A-, 25% B+, and 5% B.

2L professors are not strictly required to follow the curve, but 1L professors are.

I think that for 1L there were only like 6-7% As, and more like 40% Bs, but don't remember the numbers in the middle. Overall median is probably around 3.3? With Stone (honors) around a 3.41, is top 36-40% percent (numbers again rough). Kent (high honors) at 3.8 (or alternatively, more As than A-s and not more than 1 B grade) is top 3-5%, I think.
The 1L curve is 6-11% A, 13-19% A-, 30-35% B+, and the rest B.

ticket
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by ticket » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:24 pm

Has anybody ever had success in negotiating up from a Butler to a Hamilton?
Last edited by ticket on Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dm1683
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by dm1683 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:45 pm

ticket wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:24 pm
Has anybody ever had success in negotiating up from a Butler to a Hamilton? (177/3.92 if that's relevant. I know these things are a crapshoot but I really thought my Hammy chances were good.)
Piggybacking off of this question because I have a related one: How do yall who don't have named scholarships stomach the price tag? What's the most optimistic scholarship projection for non/Butler/Hammy people?

4/173, admitted last week but very debt averse so unlikely to attend...

jbagelboy
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by jbagelboy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:15 pm

dm1683 wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:45 pm
ticket wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:24 pm
Has anybody ever had success in negotiating up from a Butler to a Hamilton? (177/3.92 if that's relevant. I know these things are a crapshoot but I really thought my Hammy chances were good.)
Piggybacking off of this question because I have a related one: How do yall who don't have named scholarships stomach the price tag? What's the most optimistic scholarship projection for non/Butler/Hammy people?

4/173, admitted last week but very debt averse so unlikely to attend...
You can get up to 1/2 tuition without a Butler, and I have heard of above 1/2 with a “need based” component (but this is extremely rare). With your stats, you will certainly receive a scholarship offer, and you can negotiate it with competing offers from Chicago and NYU.

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RSN
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by RSN » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:46 pm

Bearlyalive wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:19 am
For law review, a good number of my friends are on law review. I'd say that LR is a worthwhile sacrifice (b/c believe me, it is a sacrifice) if (1) you want to work in academia, (2) you want a prestigious clerkship, or (3) you want to work for a prestigious boutique or a highly competitive biglaw firm (read: basically just Wachtell).

Otherwise, the time sink just seems like its not worth it. It's 20-25 hours a week, on top of all your other law school and personal responsibilities. Every one of my LR friends seems constantly stressed-out-of-their-minds, and they have all had to skip numerous social events (and we're talking, like, hanging out once every other week with a core friend group, not nightly binge-drinking). I've talked with some people on LR who say they have maintained a reasonable balance, but I also think we have very different definitions of "balance."

There are certainly other pros: the LR outline bank is unmatched, its support group and network seem very valuable, and it does give you a noticeable bump for the most competitive jobs. And if you want to write a Note (why??), you won't be restricted to the topic of your secondary journal. Someone who has actually been on LR could give you better info here. But personally, I'm very glad that I am not on LR, and I almost feel bad for many of my friends who are.

Of course, I also think that the entire journal process is a giant scam, and would very much advise doing a secondary journal without a Note requirement if you're not gunning for the kinds of jobs outlined above. Journals are very much mindless grunt work, writing a Note is a giant pain, and you have better things you could be doing with your life.
The bolded is true, but don't do what too many people did this year and join a journal to get it on your resume and quit after EIP. No bueno.

LawSSS2
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by LawSSS2 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:48 pm

Can you get need based aid on top of a named scholarship?

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RSN
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by RSN » Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:49 pm

Bearlyalive wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:11 pm
Kümmel wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:03 pm
tinycatfriend wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:53 pm
Okay, my biggest question:

A lot of my friends (tbh, NYU students though) have harped on how toxic/competitive Columbia culture is. Is this just NYU propaganda or should I be legit concerned?
lol that's classic propaganda. honestly, CLS is no more/less competitive than other law schools. If anything, NYU is more competitive since they still have B-'s part of their mandatory curve
Just confirming this. I have not found CLS to be a competitive culture. A few people are stingier than others about sharing their own outlines, but in general outline swaps, covering for friends (or just other classmates), study groups, etc., are very common. I've made great friends here.

Everyone knows that everyone will get a job, so while there is still stress (we're law students after all), it's self-generated rather than external.
An oddly large number of NYU students are weirdly obsessed with shitting on Columbia and its students. It's dumb because we have essentially the same job outcomes but for some reason they're bizarrely judgmental and talk condescendingly to 0Ls at their admitted students programs about "that school uptown." We really don't think/talk about them at all

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Nebby
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Nebby » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:14 pm

I don't think any one should do a note unless they (1) want a clerkship or (2) are weird like me.

01panm
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by 01panm » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:30 pm

RSN wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 7:46 pm
Bearlyalive wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:19 am
For law review, a good number of my friends are on law review. I'd say that LR is a worthwhile sacrifice (b/c believe me, it is a sacrifice) if (1) you want to work in academia, (2) you want a prestigious clerkship, or (3) you want to work for a prestigious boutique or a highly competitive biglaw firm (read: basically just Wachtell).

Otherwise, the time sink just seems like its not worth it. It's 20-25 hours a week, on top of all your other law school and personal responsibilities. Every one of my LR friends seems constantly stressed-out-of-their-minds, and they have all had to skip numerous social events (and we're talking, like, hanging out once every other week with a core friend group, not nightly binge-drinking). I've talked with some people on LR who say they have maintained a reasonable balance, but I also think we have very different definitions of "balance."

There are certainly other pros: the LR outline bank is unmatched, its support group and network seem very valuable, and it does give you a noticeable bump for the most competitive jobs. And if you want to write a Note (why??), you won't be restricted to the topic of your secondary journal. Someone who has actually been on LR could give you better info here. But personally, I'm very glad that I am not on LR, and I almost feel bad for many of my friends who are.

Of course, I also think that the entire journal process is a giant scam, and would very much advise doing a secondary journal without a Note requirement if you're not gunning for the kinds of jobs outlined above. Journals are very much mindless grunt work, writing a Note is a giant pain, and you have better things you could be doing with your life.
The bolded is true, but don't do what too many people did this year and join a journal to get it on your resume and quit after EIP. No bueno.
Is there an actual benefit for EIP in doing a non-LR journal?

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Kümmel
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Re: Columbia Students Taking Questions

Post by Kümmel » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:34 pm

01panm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:30 pm
Is there an actual benefit for EIP in doing a non-LR journal?
It's not that secondary journals help for EIP but that not doing it can hurt just because it raises eyebrows

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