Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Discuss comparisons of various school choices and the various metrics that inform them, including rankings, student life, location, etc.
cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Fri Jan 22, 2021 9:02 pm

Got the Hamilton today, Darrow yesterday. Interested in practicing transactional big law. Should I withdraw from lower ranked schools or wait for their offers as well?

By lower ranked schools, I mean I'd be withdrawing from UCLA, Georgetown, Cornell, Duke, Northwestern, Berkeley, Virginia, Penn and NYU.

Also, idk about the overlap between this forum and TLS, so I posted the same question in both, apologies if that's bothersome.

User avatar
UVA2B
Moderator
Posts: 4157
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by UVA2B » Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:49 pm

Does the Darrow still come with a stipend? If so, take the Darrow and run.

User avatar
Stranger
Posts: 2943
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:19 am

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by Stranger » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:01 pm

Where do you want to practice? Does it matter to you? Where do you have ties?

Are any of these schools that are located somewhere you know you wouldn't be happy for three years? Are any of them located somewhere you'd really like to live and work?

I have a hard time seeing an argument for keeping yourself in with NYU with your goals and a Hammy in hand, but maybe someone who attended NYU can make the case for it as a potential place to study with biglaw transactional goals. Columbia has some of the most consistent biglaw placement of all, and going there for only (NYC) cost-of-living debt would be pretty spectacular for that goal. UCLA and Georgetown have a hard time stacking up to the job prospects of your other options, so you can probably drop them without any significant opportunity cost.

Congratulations on a great beginning to your cycle.

Story
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:56 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by Story » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:28 pm

I personally would take whichever one ended up costing less out of pocket when I graduate.

Congratulations!

User avatar
Slytherpuff
Posts: 5500
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:08 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by Slytherpuff » Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:50 pm

Congratulations, what fantastic outcomes. I'd probably wait for your offers elsewhere for just about everywhere on your list, but likely withdraw from UCLA and Georgetown (unless you are dying to go to law school in LA or DC). You can wait it out and see what aid packages you get at the other schools, in case you get a full ride at schools you'd like to attend even more than Columbia or Michigan, but I really can't think of much that could top a Hamilton and a Darrow!

cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:24 am

UVA2B wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:49 pm
Does the Darrow still come with a stipend? If so, take the Darrow and run.
The Darrow I was offered comes with a 5K annual stipend. Is 15K worth choosing Michigan over Columbia?

cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:28 am

Stranger wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:01 pm
Where do you want to practice? Does it matter to you? Where do you have ties?

Are any of these schools that are located somewhere you know you wouldn't be happy for three years? Are any of them located somewhere you'd really like to live and work?

I have a hard time seeing an argument for keeping yourself in with NYU with your goals and a Hammy in hand, but maybe someone who attended NYU can make the case for it as a potential place to study with biglaw transactional goals. Columbia has some of the most consistent biglaw placement of all, and going there for only (NYC) cost-of-living debt would be pretty spectacular for that goal. UCLA and Georgetown have a hard time stacking up to the job prospects of your other options, so you can probably drop them without any significant opportunity cost.

Congratulations on a great beginning to your cycle.
Thank you for the congratulations! I’m an international student so I don’t really have ties anywhere. My preferences going in were NY BigLaw but I think that was just because of what I’ve seen in Movies and TV, not me having a genuine desire to be in NY, so I feel like I’d be fine with wherever I end up. Also, I’ve heard that a JD from the T14 is super portable anyway, so would I need to be too concerned about being stuck in one place?

cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:28 am

Story wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:28 pm
I personally would take whichever one ended up costing less out of pocket when I graduate.

Congratulations!
Thank you very much, I’ll keep this in mind!

cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:30 am

Slytherpuff wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:50 pm
Congratulations, what fantastic outcomes. I'd probably wait for your offers elsewhere for just about everywhere on your list, but likely withdraw from UCLA and Georgetown (unless you are dying to go to law school in LA or DC). You can wait it out and see what aid packages you get at the other schools, in case you get a full ride at schools you'd like to attend even more than Columbia or Michigan, but I really can't think of much that could top a Hamilton and a Darrow!
Thank you for the congratulations! I was thinking pretty much the same thing; I don’t see any school other than Chicago that could top a Hamilton but, in case I have a change of heart in a couple months, I’m not sure if I want to limit my options just yet. Thank you for sharing your opinion.

User avatar
Stranger
Posts: 2943
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:19 am

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by Stranger » Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:40 am

cookiemonster wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:28 am
Stranger wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:01 pm
Where do you want to practice? Does it matter to you? Where do you have ties?

Are any of these schools that are located somewhere you know you wouldn't be happy for three years? Are any of them located somewhere you'd really like to live and work?

I have a hard time seeing an argument for keeping yourself in with NYU with your goals and a Hammy in hand, but maybe someone who attended NYU can make the case for it as a potential place to study with biglaw transactional goals. Columbia has some of the most consistent biglaw placement of all, and going there for only (NYC) cost-of-living debt would be pretty spectacular for that goal. UCLA and Georgetown have a hard time stacking up to the job prospects of your other options, so you can probably drop them without any significant opportunity cost.

Congratulations on a great beginning to your cycle.
Thank you for the congratulations! I’m an international student so I don’t really have ties anywhere. My preferences going in were NY BigLaw but I think that was just because of what I’ve seen in Movies and TV, not me having a genuine desire to be in NY, so I feel like I’d be fine with wherever I end up. Also, I’ve heard that a JD from the T14 is super portable anyway, so would I need to be too concerned about being stuck in one place?
They are super portable, but that doesn't mean there isn't a home field advantage. If, for whatever reason, you really wanted to work in San Francisco, you would have an easier time making connections there and landing the sort of job you want out of Berkley than out of University of Chicago. And if you really wanted to work in Chicago, you'd have an easier time doing so out of Northwestern than out of UVA. It's entirely possible to land any of those cities out of any of the T14, but with your lack of ties, betting on a school in a place you want to work will help a lot more than the sheer prestige of the school.

That said, if NY biglaw (and based on your previous thread, transactional with the goal of F500 GC eventually) is your goal, Columbia has some huge advantages. It's in NY, and consistently places 80% of its class into a combination of biglaw and federal clerkships (which I'm assuming are off the table for you, but thankfully for your purposes, the clerkships don't represent more than 5% of Columbia's graduating class). Over 70% of their students stay in NY. Barely 1% didn't have jobs within 9 months of graduation. Michigan's biglaw numbers are good, but not as good as Columbia's (though Michigan places a higher percentage in clerkships). Michigan places its graduates all over the country, with about a quarter landing in NY. You can get to NY biglaw from Michigan, and if it's your goal, your odds are pretty good. If you're more open to landing somewhere else, the margin between the two schools shrinks.

So it really comes down to costs and opportunities. Cost of living in Ann Arbor is around $20K, and your scholly covers a quarter of that. Columbia reports a cost of living of $25K (NYU reports $30K, so I'm betting Columbia's number is a low-end estimate for NYC living). Whether you're using savings, loans, or the bank of mom and dad, a difference of $10-15K/year is substantial. Either way, you'd be getting a top degree for not much money at all.

The choice isn't perfectly clean-cut. I think the biggest complicating factor is that you're comparing one of the most expensive schools to attend on a full ride (with around the best chances to get the employment opportunities you desire) to a significantly less expensive option that gives up a little of the opportunity to place in NY biglaw (but opening up the possibility of biglaw elsewhere). I'd hesitate to withdraw some of your "lower" ranked applications, because several of them will present a middle ground in terms of both cost and odds of landing NY biglaw if you get a full ride (I'd still rule out UCLA and Georgetown, though).

Based on these offers, you will probably be admitted to Harvard. You will possibly be admitted to Yale and/or Stanford. There will be no merit aid there, only "need-based" aid, which likely will not come close to covering cost of attendance, or even make it comparable to these schools. Do not be fooled into thinking any of them sill improve your outcomes measurably over that Hamilton. Depending on how you're financing law school, I would look at that as your best option on the table, though a Ruby would top it. And while I don't think there's likely to be a better offer outside of that, you might be surprised when you start really looking at schools and find something similarly financially reasonable that you love. For now, wait and see what comes in.

cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:22 pm

Stranger wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 11:40 am
cookiemonster wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:28 am
Stranger wrote:
Fri Jan 22, 2021 11:01 pm
Where do you want to practice? Does it matter to you? Where do you have ties?

Are any of these schools that are located somewhere you know you wouldn't be happy for three years? Are any of them located somewhere you'd really like to live and work?

I have a hard time seeing an argument for keeping yourself in with NYU with your goals and a Hammy in hand, but maybe someone who attended NYU can make the case for it as a potential place to study with biglaw transactional goals. Columbia has some of the most consistent biglaw placement of all, and going there for only (NYC) cost-of-living debt would be pretty spectacular for that goal. UCLA and Georgetown have a hard time stacking up to the job prospects of your other options, so you can probably drop them without any significant opportunity cost.

Congratulations on a great beginning to your cycle.
Thank you for the congratulations! I’m an international student so I don’t really have ties anywhere. My preferences going in were NY BigLaw but I think that was just because of what I’ve seen in Movies and TV, not me having a genuine desire to be in NY, so I feel like I’d be fine with wherever I end up. Also, I’ve heard that a JD from the T14 is super portable anyway, so would I need to be too concerned about being stuck in one place?
They are super portable, but that doesn't mean there isn't a home field advantage. If, for whatever reason, you really wanted to work in San Francisco, you would have an easier time making connections there and landing the sort of job you want out of Berkley than out of University of Chicago. And if you really wanted to work in Chicago, you'd have an easier time doing so out of Northwestern than out of UVA. It's entirely possible to land any of those cities out of any of the T14, but with your lack of ties, betting on a school in a place you want to work will help a lot more than the sheer prestige of the school.

That said, if NY biglaw (and based on your previous thread, transactional with the goal of F500 GC eventually) is your goal, Columbia has some huge advantages. It's in NY, and consistently places 80% of its class into a combination of biglaw and federal clerkships (which I'm assuming are off the table for you, but thankfully for your purposes, the clerkships don't represent more than 5% of Columbia's graduating class). Over 70% of their students stay in NY. Barely 1% didn't have jobs within 9 months of graduation. Michigan's biglaw numbers are good, but not as good as Columbia's (though Michigan places a higher percentage in clerkships). Michigan places its graduates all over the country, with about a quarter landing in NY. You can get to NY biglaw from Michigan, and if it's your goal, your odds are pretty good. If you're more open to landing somewhere else, the margin between the two schools shrinks.

So it really comes down to costs and opportunities. Cost of living in Ann Arbor is around $20K, and your scholly covers a quarter of that. Columbia reports a cost of living of $25K (NYU reports $30K, so I'm betting Columbia's number is a low-end estimate for NYC living). Whether you're using savings, loans, or the bank of mom and dad, a difference of $10-15K/year is substantial. Either way, you'd be getting a top degree for not much money at all.

The choice isn't perfectly clean-cut. I think the biggest complicating factor is that you're comparing one of the most expensive schools to attend on a full ride (with around the best chances to get the employment opportunities you desire) to a significantly less expensive option that gives up a little of the opportunity to place in NY biglaw (but opening up the possibility of biglaw elsewhere). I'd hesitate to withdraw some of your "lower" ranked applications, because several of them will present a middle ground in terms of both cost and odds of landing NY biglaw if you get a full ride (I'd still rule out UCLA and Georgetown, though).

Based on these offers, you will probably be admitted to Harvard. You will possibly be admitted to Yale and/or Stanford. There will be no merit aid there, only "need-based" aid, which likely will not come close to covering cost of attendance, or even make it comparable to these schools. Do not be fooled into thinking any of them sill improve your outcomes measurably over that Hamilton. Depending on how you're financing law school, I would look at that as your best option on the table, though a Ruby would top it. And while I don't think there's likely to be a better offer outside of that, you might be surprised when you start really looking at schools and find something similarly financially reasonable that you love. For now, wait and see what comes in.
Thank you so much for this breakdown. You went into a lot of detail and your explanations have helped a lot! Looking at LST COA numbers, it looks like it’d cost me an additional 40k to attend Columbia after its all said an done, which I think is significant but not too bad. I’m leaning pretty heavily towards Columbia, but I will definitely wait it out especially in hopes of a Ruby. Thank you once again for your help!

Ilike2read
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:56 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by Ilike2read » Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:59 pm

As someone who took it, I recommend Hamilton. There is no shot the lower COA and nominal stipend that Darrow comes with justifies taking it over Hammy given your goals. PM if you want more, unfiltered info.

cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 3:29 pm

Ilike2read wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 1:59 pm
As someone who took it, I recommend Hamilton. There is no shot the lower COA and nominal stipend that Darrow comes with justifies taking it over Hammy given your goals. PM if you want more, unfiltered info.
Ahh got it, thank you for the insight. Also, I just PM’d!

User avatar
heythatslife
Posts: 729
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by heythatslife » Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:47 pm

Congratulations on winning the law school admissions game. If you’re an international student, I also agree the marginal cost to take the Hammy over the Darrow is worth it.

cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:12 pm

heythatslife wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:47 pm
Congratulations on winning the law school admissions game. If you’re an international student, I also agree the marginal cost to take the Hammy over the Darrow is worth it.
Thank you very much! I acc had a quick question tho. Since the Hammy only covers tuition and not COL, where do I get the money to pay for rent/food/stuff? Like do I just talk to Columbia for a loan?

User avatar
Nony
Posts: 9225
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by Nony » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:24 pm

You take out loans the same way most students do, except that they will need to cover tuition + COL and you will just need COL. The wrinkle is that since you're an international student you won't have access to the same loans that US students do, so you should contact Columbia's financial aid office (specific to the law school, not for the whole university) and find out what your options are. I think all/some of HYS offer their own loans to international students, but I don't know how far that extends in the T14. (Columbia might do so as well, I don't know, but their financial aid office will know.) I'd talk to Michigan too, b/c while I agree that generally the Hamilton is a slightly better option, the Darrow is still amazing, and there may be differences in options for international students that will matter to you.

cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:57 pm

Nony wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:24 pm
You take out loans the same way most students do, except that they will need to cover tuition + COL and you will just need COL. The wrinkle is that since you're an international student you won't have access to the same loans that US students do, so you should contact Columbia's financial aid office (specific to the law school, not for the whole university) and find out what your options are. I think all/some of HYS offer their own loans to international students, but I don't know how far that extends in the T14. (Columbia might do so as well, I don't know, but their financial aid office will know.) I'd talk to Michigan too, b/c while I agree that generally the Hamilton is a slightly better option, the Darrow is still amazing, and there may be differences in options for international students that will matter to you.
Oh alright got it. I'll be sure to contact both aid offices to make sure I know what my options are. Thank you for your help!

Story
Posts: 94
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:56 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by Story » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:33 am

If you’re planning to clerk for a federal judge, just remember:

In order to become a federal judicial clerk, an applicant must have completed his or her J.D. degree and be a U.S. citizen. A non-citizen of the United States may be employed by the federal judiciary to work for courts located in Puerto Rico, Guam, the Virgin Islands, Northern Mariana Islands, and Hawaii.

(From the Google)

User avatar
pancakes3
Posts: 6689
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:00 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by pancakes3 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:41 am

don't need to clerk for transactional

User avatar
heythatslife
Posts: 729
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by heythatslife » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:22 am

cookiemonster wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:57 pm
Nony wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:24 pm
You take out loans the same way most students do, except that they will need to cover tuition + COL and you will just need COL. The wrinkle is that since you're an international student you won't have access to the same loans that US students do, so you should contact Columbia's financial aid office (specific to the law school, not for the whole university) and find out what your options are. I think all/some of HYS offer their own loans to international students, but I don't know how far that extends in the T14. (Columbia might do so as well, I don't know, but their financial aid office will know.) I'd talk to Michigan too, b/c while I agree that generally the Hamilton is a slightly better option, the Darrow is still amazing, and there may be differences in options for international students that will matter to you.
Oh alright got it. I'll be sure to contact both aid offices to make sure I know what my options are. Thank you for your help!
Definitely reach out to both law school's financial aid offices to see if they provide loans. That said, as Nony mentioned, H and Y offer institutional loans (and it makes sense for HY to do so because you have to take a certain amount of loans for you get any grant under their need-based system) but I don't think this is the norm across the T14. If they don't, you may have to get loans from your home country or look to lenders that finance international students in the US for your COL. Obviously I can't speak to the former but I have some exposure to the latter and can provide some information via PM.

I do want to elaborate a little on why I think the Hammy is better than the Darrow for international students even with the marginal added cost of 30-40k, now that I'm at my desk instead of typing on the phone.

Columbia has a small but statistically meaningful advantage for biglaw - per LST, CLS has a national firm score of 71.6% and Michigan has 56%. All other things being equal, a CLS student has a slightly better shot than a Michigan student with the same grades at biglaw (and higher ranked firms within the biglaw firmament). You have to remember that it really is biglaw or bust (plus maybe some unicorn NGOs) for international students because regional firms, government or clerking aren't options if you strike out of biglaw. Given this, in your shoes (and I have been), I think it's worth it to pay a little extra for that cushion as a form of insurance.

Also, for international students, not all Vault / AmLaw 100 firms are created equal, even if they pay the same. There isn't a strict correlation but the firms at the upper end of the echelon with stronger international presence (think Latham, White & Case, Simpson, etc.) tend to be better at taking care of the visa stuff, and potentially sponsoring a green card if you're so interested, than the ones lower down the rung. I mean zero shade on these guys and I'm just picking them out randomly, but for instance if your H1B visa lottery goes south, there isn't much Blank Rome or Hughes Hubbard can do for you other than wish you the best and cut you loose, whereas the elite international firms routinely get around this problem by rotating their associates through their London/Hong Kong office for a year. A 100k difference would be a different story, perhaps, but additional factors like this IMO make the slight boost at CLS worth the extra 30-40k at least for an international student shooting for NYC biglaw.

Saami
Posts: 236
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:56 am

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by Saami » Mon Jan 25, 2021 7:16 am

Hey! Congrats on the Hamilton! I'm a 3L who's currently attending Columbia under the Hamilton fellowship. Feel free to reach out to me with any specific questions. :)

cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:47 pm

heythatslife wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:22 am
cookiemonster wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:57 pm
Nony wrote:
Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:24 pm
You take out loans the same way most students do, except that they will need to cover tuition + COL and you will just need COL. The wrinkle is that since you're an international student you won't have access to the same loans that US students do, so you should contact Columbia's financial aid office (specific to the law school, not for the whole university) and find out what your options are. I think all/some of HYS offer their own loans to international students, but I don't know how far that extends in the T14. (Columbia might do so as well, I don't know, but their financial aid office will know.) I'd talk to Michigan too, b/c while I agree that generally the Hamilton is a slightly better option, the Darrow is still amazing, and there may be differences in options for international students that will matter to you.
Oh alright got it. I'll be sure to contact both aid offices to make sure I know what my options are. Thank you for your help!
Definitely reach out to both law school's financial aid offices to see if they provide loans. That said, as Nony mentioned, H and Y offer institutional loans (and it makes sense for HY to do so because you have to take a certain amount of loans for you get any grant under their need-based system) but I don't think this is the norm across the T14. If they don't, you may have to get loans from your home country or look to lenders that finance international students in the US for your COL. Obviously I can't speak to the former but I have some exposure to the latter and can provide some information via PM.

I do want to elaborate a little on why I think the Hammy is better than the Darrow for international students even with the marginal added cost of 30-40k, now that I'm at my desk instead of typing on the phone.

Columbia has a small but statistically meaningful advantage for biglaw - per LST, CLS has a national firm score of 71.6% and Michigan has 56%. All other things being equal, a CLS student has a slightly better shot than a Michigan student with the same grades at biglaw (and higher ranked firms within the biglaw firmament). You have to remember that it really is biglaw or bust (plus maybe some unicorn NGOs) for international students because regional firms, government or clerking aren't options if you strike out of biglaw. Given this, in your shoes (and I have been), I think it's worth it to pay a little extra for that cushion as a form of insurance.

Also, for international students, not all Vault / AmLaw 100 firms are created equal, even if they pay the same. There isn't a strict correlation but the firms at the upper end of the echelon with stronger international presence (think Latham, White & Case, Simpson, etc.) tend to be better at taking care of the visa stuff, and potentially sponsoring a green card if you're so interested, than the ones lower down the rung. I mean zero shade on these guys and I'm just picking them out randomly, but for instance if your H1B visa lottery goes south, there isn't much Blank Rome or Hughes Hubbard can do for you other than wish you the best and cut you loose, whereas the elite international firms routinely get around this problem by rotating their associates through their London/Hong Kong office for a year. A 100k difference would be a different story, perhaps, but additional factors like this IMO make the slight boost at CLS worth the extra 30-40k at least for an international student shooting for NYC biglaw.
Thank you so much for elaborating on your recommendation, I really appreciate the time and effort you put into this analysis, it was super helpful! It definitely makes a lot more sense to pick the Hammy over the Darrow after reading all this. I'll wait and see what Chicago's saying but right now that sounds like my top choice.

I had a quick question on what you mentioned about how it's big law or bust for International students. Are the non-BigLaw options really that limited for international students?

User avatar
pancakes3
Posts: 6689
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:00 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by pancakes3 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 12:57 pm

the baseline is that non-Biglaw options are limited for all students.

User avatar
heythatslife
Posts: 729
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:54 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by heythatslife » Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:20 pm

Biglaw is generally the only sector where employers are willing to (or able to) sponsor H1B visas. Even F500-type companies are very hesitant about it, maybe except for some tech giants like Amazon and Microsoft that have an H1B-ready hiring infrastructure in place but you aren’t getting those out of law school.

cookiemonster
Posts: 44
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 7:30 pm

Re: Hamilton + Darrow vs. Rest of T7-14

Post by cookiemonster » Mon Jan 25, 2021 2:20 pm

heythatslife wrote:
Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:20 pm
Biglaw is generally the only sector where employers are willing to (or able to) sponsor H1B visas. Even F500-type companies are very hesitant about it, maybe except for some tech giants like Amazon and Microsoft that have an H1B-ready hiring infrastructure in place but you aren’t getting those out of law school.
Oh alright, understandable. And, are jobs like public interest, government work or clerking also difficult for international students to get into for the same reasons?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: fisentke545 and 15 guests