Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Discuss comparisons of various school choices and the various metrics that inform them, including rankings, student life, location, etc.
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Nebby
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Nebby » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:59 am

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:34 pm
Can someone update the full list please?
Can you post what's missing with links embedded?

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principalagent
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by principalagent » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:39 am

Kodokushiest wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:58 pm
MT Cicero wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:06 pm
Rowdy wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:02 pm
BearCat wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:57 pm
So if you want to work in Cali, looks like this is the order of schools you should attend.

Stanford -> Berkeley -> USC -> UCI -> Vandy -> UCLA
😂😂😂 I'm dying

Gitaroo_Dude
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Gitaroo_Dude » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:44 am

Looks like I need to transfer outta UCLA before Davis passes us. :shock:

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MT Cicero
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by MT Cicero » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:58 am

student4714 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:59 pm
I don't know how to insert the hyperlink into the text but

Brooklyn 23.9%

https://www.brooklaw.edu/-/media/PDF/Ca ... 19660ECD9A

72/301 (+9.2 from 2016)

BL: 20.9% (63)
FC: 2.9% (9)
You used the total FTLT as the denominator, rather than the total number of students. Here's how it ought to look:

Brooklyn - 19.6%

(72/368) (+1.7% from 2016)

BL: 17.1% (63)
FC: 2.4% (9)

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MT Cicero
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by MT Cicero » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:01 pm

Nebby wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:59 am
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 5:34 pm
Can someone update the full list please?
Can you post what's missing with links embedded?
I think these are the ones missing so far Nebby:

USC - 44.0%
UCI - 41.7%
North Carolina - 31.3%
SMU - 28.0%
Brooklyn - 19.6%
Kentucky - 15.9%

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by SmokeytheBear » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:24 pm

I'm not saying I called UCI, but I kinda called UCI.

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UVA2B
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by UVA2B » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:28 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:24 pm
I'm not saying I called UCI, but I kinda called UCI.
Remember fighting with that dude on TLS about how dean chem leaving wouldn’t impact UCI’s placement?

Screw that 0L.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by SmokeytheBear » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:31 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:28 pm
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:24 pm
I'm not saying I called UCI, but I kinda called UCI.
Remember fighting with that dude on TLS about how dean chem leaving wouldn’t impact UCI’s placement?

Screw that 0L.
What a chump.

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urmlaw18
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by urmlaw18 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:02 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:28 pm
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:24 pm
I'm not saying I called UCI, but I kinda called UCI.
Remember fighting with that dude on TLS about how dean chem leaving wouldn’t impact UCI’s placement?

Screw that 0L.
Do the new stats reflect on the new dean?

ReasonablyPrudent
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by ReasonablyPrudent » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:03 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:24 pm
I'm not saying I called UCI, but I kinda called UCI.
You're quite an authority on this.

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UVA2B
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by UVA2B » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:09 pm

urmlaw18 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:02 pm
UVA2B wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:28 pm
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:24 pm
I'm not saying I called UCI, but I kinda called UCI.
Remember fighting with that dude on TLS about how dean chem leaving wouldn’t impact UCI’s placement?

Screw that 0L.
Do the new stats reflect on the new dean?
Not exactly, they reflect that UCI is now firmly placed in the southern CA market so that any impact Dean Chem had on UCI’s placement in the beginning has been replaced by the general quality of its student body and graduates.

The argument I’m referencing was that UCI’s fed clerk placement would plummet and that wouldn’t be replaced by better biglaw placement. But these stats clearly show that even if UCI isn’t placing 10-11% in fed clerkships, any difference in fed clerk placement would just mean relatively proportional increase in BL placement.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by SmokeytheBear » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:30 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:09 pm

But these stats clearly show that even if UCI isn’t placing 10-11% in fed clerkships, any difference in fed clerk placement would just mean relatively proportional increase in BL placement.
That was exactly how we interpreted it at my firm.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by SmokeytheBear » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:33 pm

ReasonablyPrudent wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:03 pm
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:24 pm
I'm not saying I called UCI, but I kinda called UCI.
You're quite an authority on this.
There was a general amount of skepticism of UCI in LA, well, everywhere frankly. But everyone at my firm has been very impressed with the people who have come through and, from what I understand talking with my counterparts at other firms, that's the general impression. Per UVA2B's point above, people are just happy that there is another good school in SoCal that are producing quality candidates. I just love the underdog story.

student4714
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by student4714 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:03 pm

MT Cicero wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:58 am
student4714 wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:59 pm
I don't know how to insert the hyperlink into the text but

Brooklyn 23.9%

https://www.brooklaw.edu/-/media/PDF/Ca ... 19660ECD9A

72/301 (+9.2 from 2016)

BL: 20.9% (63)
FC: 2.9% (9)
You used the total FTLT as the denominator, rather than the total number of students. Here's how it ought to look:

Brooklyn - 19.6%

(72/368) (+1.7% from 2016)

BL: 17.1% (63)
FC: 2.4% (9)
My bad

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Stranger
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Stranger » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:09 pm

Spreadsheet of the updates so far

This sheet only includes schools doing over 20% biglaw+FC placement in the five-year weighted average. For the three combined categories at the end (biglaw+FC, public service, and total clerkships), I have also included the standard deviations over the past six years to give some impression of the stability of the numbers. Finally, the last six columns show changes from the class of 2016 to class of 2017 in class size, under-employment, biglaw+FC, public service, biglaw, and FC.

One particularly impressive note from those change fields is that Vandy, WUSTL, and Notre Dame all increased their class size, decreased under-employment, increased their biglaw+FC placement, and increased their public service placement, meaning that those gains in prestige employment were not coming at the expense of public service employment, nor were the improvements made simply by shrinking class size. Kudos to those schools.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by SmokeytheBear » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:25 pm

Stranger wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:09 pm
Spreadsheet of the updates so far

This sheet only includes schools doing over 20% biglaw+FC placement in the five-year weighted average. For the three combined categories at the end (biglaw+FC, public service, and total clerkships), I have also included the standard deviations over the past six years to give some impression of the stability of the numbers. Finally, the last six columns show changes from the class of 2016 to class of 2017 in class size, under-employment, biglaw+FC, public service, biglaw, and FC.

One particularly impressive note from those change fields is that Vandy, WUSTL, and Notre Dame all increased their class size, decreased under-employment, increased their biglaw+FC placement, and increased their public service placement, meaning that those gains in prestige employment were not coming at the expense of public service employment, nor were the improvements made simply by shrinking class size. Kudos to those schools.

Cue the vandy circle jerk.

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Stranger
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Stranger » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:33 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:25 pm
Stranger wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:09 pm
Spreadsheet of the updates so far

This sheet only includes schools doing over 20% biglaw+FC placement in the five-year weighted average. For the three combined categories at the end (biglaw+FC, public service, and total clerkships), I have also included the standard deviations over the past six years to give some impression of the stability of the numbers. Finally, the last six columns show changes from the class of 2016 to class of 2017 in class size, under-employment, biglaw+FC, public service, biglaw, and FC.

One particularly impressive note from those change fields is that Vandy, WUSTL, and Notre Dame all increased their class size, decreased under-employment, increased their biglaw+FC placement, and increased their public service placement, meaning that those gains in prestige employment were not coming at the expense of public service employment, nor were the improvements made simply by shrinking class size. Kudos to those schools.

Cue the vandy circle jerk.
Okay, let me caveat it, then, in hopes of avoiding another three pages of that. HOLY SMOKES, THAT STANDARD DEVIATION FIGURE IS KINDA SCARY.

(But as a Southerner wanting to practice in the South, I'd realistically say yes to Vandy taking me off the waitlist with a little money.)

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abujabal
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by abujabal » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:36 pm

Look I'm really not trying to get another Vandy thing going here, but I wonder if this has anything to do with their admissions cycle speed this year at all or if that's a spurious connection at best (ie they're trying to get a more certain type of person into the school, which resulted in the admissions slowdown that they had this year)

Dough-Bear
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Dough-Bear » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:39 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:25 pm
Stranger wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:09 pm
Spreadsheet of the updates so far

This sheet only includes schools doing over 20% biglaw+FC placement in the five-year weighted average. For the three combined categories at the end (biglaw+FC, public service, and total clerkships), I have also included the standard deviations over the past six years to give some impression of the stability of the numbers. Finally, the last six columns show changes from the class of 2016 to class of 2017 in class size, under-employment, biglaw+FC, public service, biglaw, and FC.

One particularly impressive note from those change fields is that Vandy, WUSTL, and Notre Dame all increased their class size, decreased under-employment, increased their biglaw+FC placement, and increased their public service placement, meaning that those gains in prestige employment were not coming at the expense of public service employment, nor were the improvements made simply by shrinking class size. Kudos to those schools.

Cue the vandy circle jerk.
lol. Oh he mad

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Nebby
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Nebby » Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:46 pm

Vandy has more placement power than Yale

lawlawlaw2
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by lawlawlaw2 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:07 pm

abujabal wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:36 pm
Look I'm really not trying to get another Vandy thing going here, but I wonder if this has anything to do with their admissions cycle speed this year at all or if that's a spurious connection at best (ie they're trying to get a more certain type of person into the school, which resulted in the admissions slowdown that they had this year)
I cannot speak for admissions or Vandy, but I do think Vanderbilt places a premium on a certain type of applicant. At least compared to other schools, Vanderbilt highly encourages an in person or skype interview, holds very social admitted students weekends, and generally goes through a multi-factored admissions process. I think the school really trys to fill classes with "employable" students, which results in a longer process and more than a numbers game. It probably also plays a factor in the schools increasing BL+FC #'s over the past few years. And I do not think "employable" is associated with a particular type of demographic, as the school seems to have a well represented and diverse student body, but probably has more to do with personality type, fit, etc.

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Slippin’ Jimmy
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Slippin’ Jimmy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:34 pm

Vandy is better than Princeton.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by SmokeytheBear » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:41 pm

Who wins in a fight—Vandy or Ditka?

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MT Cicero
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by MT Cicero » Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:45 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 7:41 pm
Who wins in a fight—Vandy or Ditka?
Ditka in Chicago and mayyyyybe Cali. Vandy EVERYWHERE ELSE.

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DaydreamNation
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Re: Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by DaydreamNation » Sat Apr 14, 2018 8:04 pm

lawlawlaw2 wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:07 pm
abujabal wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:36 pm
Look I'm really not trying to get another Vandy thing going here, but I wonder if this has anything to do with their admissions cycle speed this year at all or if that's a spurious connection at best (ie they're trying to get a more certain type of person into the school, which resulted in the admissions slowdown that they had this year)
I cannot speak for admissions or Vandy, but I do think Vanderbilt places a premium on a certain type of applicant. At least compared to other schools, Vanderbilt highly encourages an in person or skype interview, holds very social admitted students weekends, and generally goes through a multi-factored admissions process. I think the school really trys to fill classes with "employable" students, which results in a longer process and more than a numbers game. It probably also plays a factor in the schools increasing BL+FC #'s over the past few years. And I do not think "employable" is associated with a particular type of demographic, as the school seems to have a well represented and diverse student body, but probably has more to do with personality type, fit, etc.
Hi vandy adcomm

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