Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2023 rolling out + C/O 2012-2022 data

[icechicken]

Man Carodozo really is like king of the trap schools.

Dozo has the GW problem of being an average-strength fish in a massive pond.

[Kümmel]

Idk about that. Cardozo has half the numbers of GW now. It’s also not really a respected PI school (you might as well go to CUNY). So it’s just so strange to me that people continue to pay to go there

[DankHill]

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[DankHill]

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[DankHill]

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[Stranger]

Yeah, wouldn’t necessarily call 18.8 BLFC “average strength.” Still below average, even graded on the curve of the NYC market.

18.8 isn't just average, it's above average. There's a whole lot of schools that don't even punch in at 10% in a typical year. Cardozo has the disadvantage of proximity to three really good schools, at least in terms of average placement. The fair comparison isn't so much GW as American. I hadn't gotten that far in my digs yet, but American had a 16.4% BLFC rate last year.

[Stranger]

Iowa - 36.8% (+3.2%)

[Stranger]

We're now far enough along that I can present my rolling averages for the bulk of the schools that consistently place at least a quarter of their class in BLFC jobs. I might be missing a few around the edges, and I'm definitely missing this year's data for Howard, which is usually part of this group. The weighted average I present is 40%/25%/15%/10%/10% for the last five years. I will also give the raw average for comparison. So, this list will read, <school> (<weighted>/<raw>), listed in order of weighted average. Make of it what you will, but these probably give a better picture of these results over time.

Chicago (83.8/82.6)
Columbia (83.1/83.0)
Virginia (80.8/80.0)
Duke (79.0/79.0)
Penn (78.7/78.7)
Cornell (75.1/75.3)
Stanford (74.5/75.2)
Harvard (73.0/73.9)
Northwestern (72.8/71.9)
NYU (69.5/71.8)
Michigan (67.9/68.1)
Berkeley (67.5/66.8)
Yale (64.9/65.6)
Vanderbilt (61.5/61.9)
Georgetown (58.7/57.7)
Wash U (53.3/51.3)
Texas (52.0/50.4)
USC (51.4/47.4)
UCLA (50.9/47.8)
Notre Dame (48.8/46.1)
Fordham (48.6/47.2)
BC (46.1/44.8)
BU (45.6/44.1)
GW (36.3/35.3)
Emory (34.9/34.3)
Irvine (34.6/34.7)
Illinois (33.2/33.2)
UNC (32.6/31.3)
W&L (31.5/29.2)
Iowa (30.8/27.3)
Alabama (29.3/27.2)
Indiana (28.9/27.9)
Ohio State (28.8/27.6)
Wake Forest (28.7/25.9)
Georgia (28.3/26.5)
Minnesota (28.2/26.8)
William & Mary (27.8/27.6)
SMU (27.7/26.7)

[DankHill]

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[Stranger]

I wonder if there's a way to account for self-selection of HYS folks into elite PI, government, and other "unicorn" and top-flight outcomes. There may not be anything measurable. But maybe it's moot as BL+FC could easily be 100 percent at each of those schools if every student aimed for one of those two outcomes.

In the past, I've experimented with making my own employment based rating system. The kludge I arrived at was to separate out the 501+ jobs from the 101-500 jobs, and count 501+ and federal clerkships at a slightly higher rate from 101-500 jobs. I then treated Gov/PI about the same as 101-500, except at schools with LRAPs, where they got boosted (and more for the really good LRAPs). There were a few other factors like total employment and not having underemployed grads. That wound up with a tight cluster up top of Stanford, Yale, Chicago, and Harvard, I think in that order (it's been a while), which seems pretty accurate. Maybe after graduation I'll get those numbers up to date and run the calculations again (maybe normalizing with a weighting factor for years when a school had larger or smaller classes).

[Stranger]

I've been sleeping on the job, apparently. The employment data is here, and I didn't even notice until a lot of it was already out. Here's a first round to get y'all going:

Stanford - 64.7% (-7.3%)
Chicago - 80.8% (-7.9%)
Harvard - 69.5% (-1.4%)
Penn - 77.4% (-0.5%)
UVA - 77.0% (-5.9%)
Berkeley - 67.9% (+0.5%)
Michigan - 66.1% (-1.4%)
Cornell - 80.8% (+5.4%)
Northwestern - 75.1% (+0.5%)
Georgetown - 61.0% (-0.6%)
Vanderbilt - 72.9% (+12.9%)

That's some big moves in parts of the top 20. It's not universally bleak/meh, thanks to Cornell and Vandy, but it's kind of a down year overall.

[Stranger]

Moving on to other top 40 schools that have posted.

Georgia - 28.2% (-1.5%)
Arizona State - 16.1% (+0.7%)
Emory - 45.4% (+10.6%)
Ohio State - 29.2% (-1.6%)
W&L - 35.6% (+1.2%)
Fordham - 54.7% (+3.3%)
UC Irvine - 40.8% (+5.1%)
Wake Forest - 34.1% (+0.5%)

Emory obviously had the biggest power move, here. UC Irvine's Chemerinsky-era clerkship placements have essentially evaporated, as only 2 graduates became federal clerks this year. Overall, the news for schools ranked 21-40 was better than at the top, with only Ohio State going down out of those reporting so far.

[Stranger]

UCLA - 57.4% (+1.3%)
Wash U - 63.1% (+5.7%)
Florida - 31.2% (+7.1%)
Minnesota - 26.5% (-3.1%)
UNC - 36.1% (+0.9%)
UC Davis - 31.3% (+9.1%)

Raise the threat level from Blackwatch Plaid to The Cover of Rush's Seminal Album Moving Pictures!
https://twitter.com/monkeyrotica/status ... 1725406209

Wash U has clocked in above Georgetown.

[Barry]

Damn, Vanderbilt killed it

[UVA2B]

Vandy continues to be an anomaly. Did you dive into the underlying data for them in NY/non-NY outcomes?

[Stranger]

Vandy continues to be an anomaly. Did you dive into the underlying data for them in NY/non-NY outcomes?

I haven't. That's kinda hard to piece together until we dive into the NALP report, but they've been the kings of placing folks in non-NY offices in the past, so I'd suspect there's still a lot of that going on.

[UVA2B]

Vandy continues to be an anomaly. Did you dive into the underlying data for them in NY/non-NY outcomes?

I haven't. That's kinda hard to piece together until we dive into the NALP report, but they've been the kings of placing folks in non-NY offices in the past, so I'd suspect there's still a lot of that going on.

I suspect that’s the case too, but it’ll be interesting to see the proliferation of non-NYC market offices stemming from the pandemic. And what effect it has on the hiring market for new and junior attorneys.

[Stranger]

Vandy continues to be an anomaly. Did you dive into the underlying data for them in NY/non-NY outcomes?

I haven't. That's kinda hard to piece together until we dive into the NALP report, but they've been the kings of placing folks in non-NY offices in the past, so I'd suspect there's still a lot of that going on.

I suspect that’s the case too, but it’ll be interesting to see the proliferation of non-NYC market offices stemming from the pandemic. And what effect it has on the hiring market for new and junior attorneys.

I wonder if that could be some of the reason that the top schools aren't doing as well, while the next band seemed to do a bit better.

[Stranger]

Columbia - 82.0% (-1.2%)
Duke - 79.7% (+0.7%)
Notre Dame - 56.0% (+4.0%)
Wisconsin - 19.2% (+1.7%)
Indiana - 29.2% (-0.2%)
Arizona - 11.9% (+3.4%)
FSU - 16.1% (+/- 0.0%)
Colorado - 19.3% (-1.2%)
Washington - 20.5% (+0.4%)

Columbia may return to the top spot this year with those numbers, now that the only top flight competition left to reveal are Yale and NYU. Also, FSU with the rare result of no change.

[Stranger]

Texas - 51.9% (-1.5%)
Alabama - 25.2% (-9.4%)
George Mason - 18.6% (+0.7%)

[Stranger]

Yale - 60.1% (-4.1%)
Boston University - 48.9% (+3.1%)
Illinois - 38.5% (+7.6%)

[Stranger]

NYU - 69.7% (+6.0%)
USC - 61.1% (+1.3%)
BYU - 31.1% (+5.9)
George Washington - 35.0% (-4.5%)
William & Mary - 26.3%[url] (-3.9%) [url=https://www.bc.edu/conten ... ge - 55.7% (+9.4%)
Texas A&M - 19.5% (+4.9%)
Maryland - 18.0% (+1.4%)

Getting close to a full picture of employment outcomes at top schools this year. There are a few more to come, but not many. I'll start digging for interesting numbers outside the USNWR top 50 soonish.

[Stranger]

And it's that time again! I notice that there's new employment data available, probably a few weeks after it starts rolling out, and that means it's time to update. Here's what I've got so far:

Yale - 56.8% (-3.3%)
Chicago - 84.8% (+4.0%)
Harvard - 72.0% (+2.5%)
Columbia - 84.1% (+2.1%)
Virginia - 79.2% (+2.2%)
Berkeley - 64.9% (-3.0%)
Duke - 81.8% (+2.1%)
Northwestern - 78.1% (+3.0%)
Georgetown 64.5% (+3.5%)
UCLA - 60.1% (+2.7%)
Vanderbilt - 69.1% (-3.8%)
Wash U - 52.9% (-10.2%)
Texas - 57.1% (+5.2%)
Minnesota - 27.7% (+1.2%)
BYU - 30.6% (-0.5%)
UNC - 38.6% (+2.5%)
George Washington - 41.3% (+6.3%)
Alabama - 35.6% (+10.4%)
Notre Dame - 61.4% (+5.4%)
Iowa - 27.3% (+2.5%)
Georgia - 32.8% (+4.6%)
Emory - 48.2% (+2.8%)
Ohio State - 32.4% (+3.2%)
William & Mary - 27.6% (+1.4%)
Illinois - 45.0% (+6.5%)
W&L - 44.1% (+8.5%)
Fordham - 58.5% (+3.8%)
UC Davis - 32.5% (+1.2%)
UC Irvine - 45.8% (+5.0%)
Utah - 28.6% (+12.7%)
Wake Forest - 31.7% (-2.4%)
Arizona - 17.2% (+5.3%)
Maryland - 19.8% (+1,8%)
Washington - 25.5% (+5.0%)

[Story]

What do the percentages represent? Percentage of students who did Big law or clerkships?

[Puff]

What do the percentages represent? Percentage of students who did Big law or clerkships?

Stranger does big law + federal clerkships for these.