Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Discuss comparisons of various school choices and the various metrics that inform them, including rankings, student life, location, etc.
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Nebby
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Employment Statistics by School - C/O 2017 rolling out + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Nebby » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:58 am

CLASS OF 2017 DATA IS ROLLING OUT NOW

Percentage below is equal to # in biglaw (FT/LT in firms w/ 100+ attorneys) plus # in clerkships (federal) divided by total class size.

>80%
U. of Chicago - 87.4%
Columbia - 83.1%
Duke - 81.3%

>70%
U. of Virginia - 78.7%
U. of Penn - 78.5%
Cornell - 76.7%
Harvard - 75.9%
Stanford - 75.1%
NYU - 74.4%
U. of Michigan - 70.9%

>60%
Northwestern - 69.0%
Berkeley - 67.2%
Vanderbilt - 67.0%
Yale - 63.4%

>50%
Georgetown - 58.8%

>40%
WUSTL - 49.2%
Notre Dame - 44.9%
U. of Texas - 44.3%
USC - 44.0%
Boston College - 42.0%
Boston U. - 41.9%
UCI - 41.7%
Fordham - 41.7%
UCLA - 40.5%

>30%
George Washington U. - 32.1%
Howard - 32.0%
Emory - 31.9%
U. of Illinois - 31.7%
North Carolina - 31.3%

>20%
William and Mary - 29.3%
Alabama - 29.0%
SMU - 28.0%
U. of Indiana - 24.9%
Wash. & Lee - 24.2%
Minnesota - 23.9%
Ohio State - 23.6%
Georgia - 23.2%
Temple - 21.7%
West Virginia - 20.8%
UC-Hastings - 20.7%
Tulane - 20.6%
U. of Florida - 20.4%
Wake Forest - 20.3%
Baylor - 20.0%

>10%
U. Washington - 19.8%
Brooklyn - 19.6%
Cardozo - 19.5%
Iowa - 19.0%
Cincinnati - 18.6%
Villanova - 18.2%
Richmond - 18.1%
Tennessee - 18.0%
Loyola Chi - 18.0%
George Mason - 17.8%
U. of Houston - 17.7%
Georgia State - 17.4%
UC Davis - 16.8%
Pittsburgh U. - 16.7%
Case Western - 16.7%
Loyola LA - 16.4%
Kentucky - 15.9%
[/quote]
U. of Miami - 15.8%
Wisconsin - 15.7%
UConn - 15.0%
Maryland - 14.3%
BYU - 13.8%
Santa Clara - 13.2%
American - 12.9%
Chicago-Kent - 12.6%
Penn State U. Park - 12.3%
Northeastern - 12.0%
Colorado - 11.9%
Missouri - 11.8%
Pepperdine - 11.7%
Oklahoma - 11.5%
New Hampshire - 11.5%
UNLV - 10.9%
Arizona State - 10.6%
Utah - 10.3%
Arizona - 10.2%
Syracuse - 10.1%
South Carolina - 10.1%
Rutgers - 10.0%

See awesome spreadsheet compiling C/O 2012-2016 data below:
Stranger wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:43 pm
C/O 2012-2016 Employment Spreadsheet!

I've been poking at the stats on LST, and felt like compiling five years of them into one place. I arbitrarily included every school that made the USNWR top 50 in the past five years, but if someone wants to add more, I'll give you access to edit.

The biglaw cutoff is firms of 100+ lawyers, and I've cut the private practice numbers into two groups along that line (rather than trying to suss out the meanings of midlaw, shitlaw, and boutique). Perhaps I should have separated out the solos, but that's another day's project.

All non-federal clerkships are groups together. I have ignored the Education category. The under-employment score is lifted directly from LST. The bar passage rate is the total passage reported on LST.

Numbers for the most recent four class sizes are enrollment, rather than graduation, and you can expect those to shift, notably increasing up top. I felt it worthwhile to show these in order to give readers context for when a year might represent an outlier due to class size.

Download your own copies of this, and generate outcome-based rankings to reflect your own priorities to your heart's content.
Last edited by Nebby on Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:13 pm, edited 37 times in total.

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urmlaw18
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by urmlaw18 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 pm

Are these the most recent job stats?

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urmlaw18
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by urmlaw18 » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:21 pm

Wow! Why is Berkeley's employment rate so low? It's the lowest out of all the T14.

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Stranger
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Stranger » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:28 pm

urmlaw18 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 pm
Are these the most recent job stats?
These are the most recent. Class of 2017 will release mid April.

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Nebby
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Nebby » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:23 pm

urmlaw18 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:21 pm
Wow! Why is Berkeley's employment rate so low? It's the lowest out of all the T14.
These employment stats are only for biglaw and clerkship placement. For an explanation of why Berkely's are "low," see my companion thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=157

Kodokushiest
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Kodokushiest » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:34 pm

Stranger wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:28 pm
urmlaw18 wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:18 pm
Are these the most recent job stats?
These are the most recent. Class of 2017 will release mid April.
So excited for this.

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abujabal
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by abujabal » Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:30 pm

I think UW's been left off here. Not sure what metric for "biglaw*" you're using (guessing 251+?) but thought I'd point it out.

251-500 = 3.9%
501+ =7.8%
Fed = 4.6%

Should be either: 12.4% if no 251-500, or 16.3% if you're including it

Thanks!

BearCat
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by BearCat » Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:08 pm

abujabal wrote:
Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:30 pm
I think UW's been left off here. Not sure what metric for "biglaw*" you're using (guessing 251+?) but thought I'd point it out.

251-500 = 3.9%
501+ =7.8%
Fed = 4.6%

Should be either: 12.4% if no 251-500, or 16.3% if you're including it

Thanks!
It's 101+ I think, and according to LST, UW is 19% for BL+FC

The cutoff where BL+FC should be relevant is 30% imo. Anything less and it's far from a realistic shot, and BL+FC chances shouldn't really be a part of the consideration. You should only look at general employment score at that point.

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Echos Myron
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Echos Myron » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:43 pm

Is there anywhere to look for school-published documents that list the places of employment for T20 grads? A Duke admit once sent me a PDF from ASW that had all of the firms/orgs that had hired Duke grads over the past two years. It seems these types of documents aren't generally posted for the public, but they clearly exist for at least some schools

BearCat
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by BearCat » Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:47 pm

Echos Myron wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:43 pm
Is there anywhere to look for school-published documents that list the places of employment for T20 grads? A Duke admit once sent me a PDF from ASW that had all of the firms/orgs that had hired Duke grads over the past two years. It seems these types of documents aren't generally posted for the public, but they clearly exist for at least some schools
This depends on the career services office of each school. This type of data is compiled and made public by them. Also, a simple list of all employers who have ever employed at least 1 grad in the past 2 years is completely meaningless. It'll be the same list at all the T14, and the only names missing from a T20's list would be Kellogg, Williams and Connolly, Susman if not Texas, MTO if not UCLA/USC, etc.

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MT Cicero
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by MT Cicero » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:53 pm

I always throw my mini-pitch on Northwestern's numbers including classes with ~10% JD-MBA's. NU publishes detailed numbers for just the JD-MBA's, so it's easy to pull out the JD-only outcomes. It's been only a small increase typically, but some years have been more than a 5% difference in BL + FC outcomes. Doesn't move NU anywhere for c/o 2016.

For reference, the c/o 2016 has a 71.3% BL/FC if you look only at the JD's.

I know that other schools have dual-degree folks that probably skew numbers as well, but ours is a pretty damn large group. It's also easily quantifiable since NU reports both sets, so budding JD's may want to look at the JD-only data.

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Echos Myron
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Echos Myron » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:12 pm

IPeeLaw wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:47 pm
Echos Myron wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:43 pm
Is there anywhere to look for school-published documents that list the places of employment for T20 grads? A Duke admit once sent me a PDF from ASW that had all of the firms/orgs that had hired Duke grads over the past two years. It seems these types of documents aren't generally posted for the public, but they clearly exist for at least some schools
This depends on the career services office of each school. This type of data is compiled and made public by them. Also, a simple list of all employers who have ever employed at least 1 grad in the past 2 years is completely meaningless. It'll be the same list at all the T14, and the only names missing from a T20's list would be Kellogg, Williams and Connolly, Susman if not Texas, MTO if not UCLA/USC, etc.
Aside from the debatable importance of such a document, where would a prospective applicant find such a list? Are they only provided to admitted students?

ShakeandBake
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by ShakeandBake » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:34 am

Echos Myron wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:12 pm
IPeeLaw wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:47 pm
Echos Myron wrote:
Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:43 pm
Is there anywhere to look for school-published documents that list the places of employment for T20 grads? A Duke admit once sent me a PDF from ASW that had all of the firms/orgs that had hired Duke grads over the past two years. It seems these types of documents aren't generally posted for the public, but they clearly exist for at least some schools
This depends on the career services office of each school. This type of data is compiled and made public by them. Also, a simple list of all employers who have ever employed at least 1 grad in the past 2 years is completely meaningless. It'll be the same list at all the T14, and the only names missing from a T20's list would be Kellogg, Williams and Connolly, Susman if not Texas, MTO if not UCLA/USC, etc.
Aside from the debatable importance of such a document, where would a prospective applicant find such a list? Are they only provided to admitted students?
Maybe not place of employment, but I know if you look at the employment info on schools' sites they usually have a list of employers that recruited on campus the past year.

ShakeandBake
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by ShakeandBake » Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:37 am

Does anyone else look at the increase/decrease in class size for the years that correspond to the latest employment numbers? I.E. look at how Fordham ( a school I am seriously considering) dropped their class size for 2014 to 367 students, and their BL+FC rate jumped from top third to 42%. They've been increasing class size again to 400+ students, which worries me when considering them. You can see the increase and decreases in 1L enrollment on the overview page of LST for the school.

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Stranger
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Stranger » Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:43 pm

Spreadsheet!

I've been poking at the stats on LST, and felt like compiling five years of them into one place. I arbitrarily included every school that made the USNWR top 50 in the past five years, but if someone wants to add more, I'll give you access to edit.

The biglaw cutoff is firms of 100+ lawyers, and I've cut the private practice numbers into two groups along that line (rather than trying to suss out the meanings of midlaw, shitlaw, and boutique). Perhaps I should have separated out the solos, but that's another day's project.

All non-federal clerkships are groups together. I have ignored the Education category. The under-employment score is lifted directly from LST. The bar passage rate is the total passage reported on LST.

Numbers for the most recent four class sizes are enrollment, rather than graduation, and you can expect those to shift, notably increasing up top. I felt it worthwhile to show these in order to give readers context for when a year might represent an outlier due to class size.

Download your own copies of this, and generate outcome-based rankings to reflect your own priorities to your heart's content.

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Nebby
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Nebby » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:31 pm

Stranger wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:43 pm
Spreadsheet!

I've been poking at the stats on LST, and felt like compiling five years of them into one place. I arbitrarily included every school that made the USNWR top 50 in the past five years, but if someone wants to add more, I'll give you access to edit.

The biglaw cutoff is firms of 100+ lawyers, and I've cut the private practice numbers into two groups along that line (rather than trying to suss out the meanings of midlaw, shitlaw, and boutique). Perhaps I should have separated out the solos, but that's another day's project.

All non-federal clerkships are groups together. I have ignored the Education category. The under-employment score is lifted directly from LST. The bar passage rate is the total passage reported on LST.

Numbers for the most recent four class sizes are enrollment, rather than graduation, and you can expect those to shift, notably increasing up top. I felt it worthwhile to show these in order to give readers context for when a year might represent an outlier due to class size.

Download your own copies of this, and generate outcome-based rankings to reflect your own priorities to your heart's content.
Updated OP. Thank you!

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Stranger
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Re: Class of 2016 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Stranger » Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:44 pm

Nebby wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:31 pm
Stranger wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 3:43 pm
Spreadsheet!

I've been poking at the stats on LST, and felt like compiling five years of them into one place. I arbitrarily included every school that made the USNWR top 50 in the past five years, but if someone wants to add more, I'll give you access to edit.

The biglaw cutoff is firms of 100+ lawyers, and I've cut the private practice numbers into two groups along that line (rather than trying to suss out the meanings of midlaw, shitlaw, and boutique). Perhaps I should have separated out the solos, but that's another day's project.

All non-federal clerkships are groups together. I have ignored the Education category. The under-employment score is lifted directly from LST. The bar passage rate is the total passage reported on LST.

Numbers for the most recent four class sizes are enrollment, rather than graduation, and you can expect those to shift, notably increasing up top. I felt it worthwhile to show these in order to give readers context for when a year might represent an outlier due to class size.

Download your own copies of this, and generate outcome-based rankings to reflect your own priorities to your heart's content.
Updated OP. Thank you!
I'm glad you like it, but is it possible to restore your content as well so there's something useful for folks at the office who might have to labor under no-Google-Drive policies?

Student of Law
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Re: Employment Statistics by School + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Student of Law » Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:45 pm

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/03/the-bes ... -job-2018/

Columbia Law: 68 percent
U. Chicago Law: 60 percent
NYU Law: 57 percent
UVA Law: 56 percent
Penn Law: 52 percent
Northwestern Law: 52 percent
Duke Law: 51 percent
Harvard Law: 50 percent
Cornell Law: 48 percent
Berkeley Law: 46 percent

Dough-Bear
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Re: Employment Statistics by School + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Dough-Bear » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:59 am

More:

Stanford: 43 percent
GULC: 40 percent
Vandy: 39 percent
Michigan: 37 percent
UCLA: 32 percent
USC: 31 percent
Texas: 29 percent
Yale: 28 percent

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Nebby
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Re: Employment Statistics by School + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Nebby » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:34 am

We use the ABA forms ITT, which haven't been released yet.

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Stranger
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Re: Employment Statistics by School + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Stranger » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:47 am

Nebby wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:34 am
We use the ABA forms ITT, which haven't been released yet.
I'll try to get my file updated in the next few days to reflect the new entries to the USNWR top 50. Baylor, Richmond, and Connecticut, for those wondering.

Dough-Bear
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Re: Employment Statistics by School + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Dough-Bear » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:21 pm

Nebby wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:34 am
We use the ABA forms ITT, which haven't been released yet.
Right. Just thought knowing the % of most recent class at the largest 100 firms would be insightful before ABA numbers came out. Obviously this isn't BL+FC. Sorry if that was not clear

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Stranger
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Re: Employment Statistics by School + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Stranger » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:17 pm

Stranger wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:47 am
Nebby wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:34 am
We use the ABA forms ITT, which haven't been released yet.
I'll try to get my file updated in the next few days to reflect the new entries to the USNWR top 50. Baylor, Richmond, and Connecticut, for those wondering.
Updated!

BearCat
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Re: Employment Statistics by School + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by BearCat » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:08 pm

How is atl getting these numbers before aba?

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Stranger
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Re: Employment Statistics by School + C/O 2012-2016 data

Post by Stranger » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:29 pm

IPeeLaw wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:08 pm
How is atl getting these numbers before aba?
What ATL posted was from an article based on hiring at the largest 100 firms, not based on the ABA categories.

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