UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

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beep
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UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by beep » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:33 am

I can't resist the opportunity to live up to UofC annoying law/econ gunner stereotypes.

Ask away about admissions, living in Hyde Park/Chicago, OCI, classes, whatever.

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beep
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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by beep » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:33 am

Reserved for useful resources to be posted later

necho2
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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by necho2 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:46 am

*leaning fully into the gunner role*

Any advice if we're on the cusp of a nicer Honors level GPA-wise during 2l/3l? Classes to avoid/focus on?

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beep
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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by beep » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:52 am

My experiences:

  • This isn't a class and is probably obvious, but don't do journal. And if you do, especially don't do e-board. Biggest mistake of law school, for me; almost singlehandedly wrecked 3L.
  • Henderson's Securities class probably has the highest "actual grade received" / "amount of work done" ratio on my transcript, but idk if that's generalizable. I realized sometime toward the end of 1L that I could bullshit really well on the econ-heavy stuff regardless of how well I knew the material, but had almost no bullshit-effetctiveness on the conlaw/civpro-type stuff. So if you're the opposite then I guess you'd go for Baude/Buss/etc.
  • Honorable mentions: Picker's tech policy seminar (nonzero work but it's fun so whatever), collective bargaining in sports and entertainment (probably my favorite 2L/3L class), doing an independent study on something you know about already. Actually this last one is pretty overpowered as long as you can keep yourself at least a little disciplined and can work with a prof who is not going to be demanding a lot of week-to-week work, which in my experience + reports of friends is most of them.
  • On the flipside, I got murdered on this international arbitration seminar despite trying reasonably hard. Went in expecting seminar + LLMs = free, but it turns out that a lot of LLMs actually practice international arbitration, so half the class seemed to know more than the prof. I did not keep up well not having any prior knowledge.
  • Dishonorable mentions: Baird commercial law, accounting for lawyers, fucking admiralty ugh, canonical ideas seminar but why would you do this if looking for chill classes anyway. Also, though Professor Neal is among my favorite profs at the law school, her telecom course can be fairly tough and at least my year there were a few people who really knew the subject area. I thought I was reasonably up on stuff and had a lot of subject-matter interest but got wrecked despite putting in hours.
  • I never did a clinic but friends who did had great things to say about their fun/work to grade ratio. Except for corporate lab.

You can swing some super friendly schedules 2L / 3L year if you're careful and use independent study well. A friend of mine managed to arrange multiple quarters where he'd have class only once or twice a week, and just flew down to Florida the rest of the week. It was kind of inspiring.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by Naguib » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:45 pm

beep wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:52 am
My experiences:

  • This isn't a class and is probably obvious, but don't do journal. And if you do, especially don't do e-board. Biggest mistake of law school, for me; almost singlehandedly wrecked 3L.
What do you think would have gone better if you hadn't done journal?

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by beep » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:35 pm

Naguib wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:45 pm
beep wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:52 am
My experiences:
  • This isn't a class and is probably obvious, but don't do journal. And if you do, especially don't do e-board. Biggest mistake of law school, for me; almost singlehandedly wrecked 3L.
What do you think would have gone better if you hadn't done journal?
Just my life during 2L/3L. I spent a ton of time doing something I hated.

To expand: it seems like other law reviews can be comparatively more sane, but after talking to friends who went to other law schools, I get the strong impression that Chicago's law review makes staffers take comparatively gigantic portions of cite checks and do them in particularly short amounts of time. And eboard cranks that up a notch; even if you aren't in an executive position, there is just so much work writing topic proposals, doing another set of cite checks, doing proofs, etc, and all that is on top of whatever your actual eboard position is. I think I pulled more all-nighters and late (3-4am) nights for law review than I did for classes overall in law school, and it's not even close if you take out 1L. Law review is just a lot of work, most of which is not very interesting. Staffers spend a lot of time doing things like properly archiving digital copies of all 300+ sources cited in an article (if it's in an old, out of print book, you had better go to the ends of the earth to get it! someone might think that that citation is inaccurate twelve years later), finding a citation for the controversial proposition that "oxygen is important," and making sure that instead of "F. Supp. 3d" and "id." and "v." and ", at *" for Westlaw cites, all citations must be "F Supp 3d" and "id" and "v" and ", *" because we are Chicago and we must preserve our feeling of specialness, law students be damned. I really hated it but it is a black spot to quit, so you don't (but smarter people than I at least realize how much it sucks, and opt out of eboard).

Although I'm in litigation, I wasn't interested in clerking, so I did not really get the extrinsic benefits of law review that people point to for justifying the suck. It was a "oh, I had good grades so I should do this, and maybe it could be interesting" kind of thing. I think the corporate folks know that they don't have the same law review/clerking expectations that litigation people do. But IMO even litigation people should think about whether journal makes sense for their goals, especially if they don't plan to clerk. Some people really enjoyed journal, but a lot of others didn't.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by Naguib » Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:58 pm

beep wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:35 pm
Naguib wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:45 pm
beep wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:52 am
My experiences:
  • This isn't a class and is probably obvious, but don't do journal. And if you do, especially don't do e-board. Biggest mistake of law school, for me; almost singlehandedly wrecked 3L.
What do you think would have gone better if you hadn't done journal?
Just my life during 2L/3L. I spent a ton of time doing something I hated.

To expand: it seems like other law reviews can be comparatively more sane, but after talking to friends who went to other law schools, I get the strong impression that Chicago's law review makes staffers take comparatively gigantic portions of cite checks and do them in particularly short amounts of time. And eboard cranks that up a notch; even if you aren't in an executive position, there is just so much work writing topic proposals, doing another set of cite checks, doing proofs, etc, and all that is on top of whatever your actual eboard position is. I think I pulled more all-nighters and late (3-4am) nights for law review than I did for classes overall in law school, and it's not even close if you take out 1L. Law review is just a lot of work, most of which is not very interesting. Staffers spend a lot of time doing things like properly archiving digital copies of all 300+ sources cited in an article (if it's in an old, out of print book, you had better go to the ends of the earth to get it! someone might think that that citation is inaccurate twelve years later), finding a citation for the controversial proposition that "oxygen is important," and making sure that instead of "F. Supp. 3d" and "id." and "v." and ", at *" for Westlaw cites, all citations must be "F Supp 3d" and "id" and "v" and ", *" because we are Chicago and we must preserve our feeling of specialness, law students be damned. I really hated it but it is a black spot to quit, so you don't (but smarter people than I at least realize how much it sucks, and opt out of eboard).

Although I'm in litigation, I wasn't interested in clerking, so I did not really get the extrinsic benefits of law review that people point to for justifying the suck. It was a "oh, I had good grades so I should do this, and maybe it could be interesting" kind of thing. I think the corporate folks know that they don't have the same law review/clerking expectations that litigation people do. But IMO even litigation people should think about whether journal makes sense for their goals, especially if they don't plan to clerk. Some people really enjoyed journal, but a lot of others didn't.
Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm interested in the academic side of things regardless of whether I end up doing lit or transactional, with maybe clerking down the line, so I always appreciate hearing different perspectives about law review. Do you have friends at other law schools who have similar/different experiences?

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by beep » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:47 pm

Got it. In that case, if you are for-sure going for academia, it is absolutely worth it to do journal. You will get a pretty close look at one aspect of the publishing side of academia. You will also get a chance to work very extensively on a comment that has way-better-than-average chances of being published (for what it's worth, writing my comment was by far the best part of law review [despite a comments editor who tried his best to make it painful]. I was published in my year's volume, and it's cool to check every few months and find a random textbook or case cited my article.) For eboard, if you make it that far without hating everything, I would strongly recommend trying to do articles editing; they were the ones choosing articles and so got the best sense of the inside baseball on how/why articles get accepted or rejected.

I don't know the opinions of friends at other law schools as well as my own, but from our short conversations about law review the main takeaway I got was "wow, that sounds a lot easier than what we did." They would split up cite checks in way smaller chunks and then have longer time to work on them. They seemed to have fewer "do this work because the staffers have always done this work" type of assignments. Most of them seemed to have an attitude of "eh, law review was fine" as a result. None of my ex-law-reviewer friends did eboard at their schools, though, so I can't compare experiences on that aspect.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by Naguib » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:46 pm

beep wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:47 pm
Got it. In that case, if you are for-sure going for academia, it is absolutely worth it to do journal. You will get a pretty close look at one aspect of the publishing side of academia. You will also get a chance to work very extensively on a comment that has way-better-than-average chances of being published (for what it's worth, writing my comment was by far the best part of law review [despite a comments editor who tried his best to make it painful]. I was published in my year's volume, and it's cool to check every few months and find a random textbook or case cited my article.) For eboard, if you make it that far without hating everything, I would strongly recommend trying to do articles editing; they were the ones choosing articles and so got the best sense of the inside baseball on how/why articles get accepted or rejected.

I don't know the opinions of friends at other law schools as well as my own, but from our short conversations about law review the main takeaway I got was "wow, that sounds a lot easier than what we did." They would split up cite checks in way smaller chunks and then have longer time to work on them. They seemed to have fewer "do this work because the staffers have always done this work" type of assignments. Most of them seemed to have an attitude of "eh, law review was fine" as a result. None of my ex-law-reviewer friends did eboard at their schools, though, so I can't compare experiences on that aspect.
That makes sense, and the part about working on a comment sounds pretty cool. I'm hoping I get into Chicago (already got into the other two CCN schools) cause I have a Law and Economics bent but it does sound like they work you pretty hard if you decide to do review. Do you know people who are thinking of doing academia? How much does the school support it? Do they make sure your expectations are realistic and tell you it's pretty tough to break into or not? Thanks again for all the answers.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by legallybrunette » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:35 am

How is the student culture really? I'm sure you're well aware of its rep as cutthroat/gunner crazy. Someone in the bad old forum had mentioned that a lot of people developed severe mental health issues. A former undergrad (and later YLS grad!) I met told me the rumors are true about the needlessly high stress culture there with regard to grades/studying and lack of support from admin. But that's undergrad and I hear that all of its grad programs are quite a bit different!

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by beep » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:00 pm

Naguib wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:46 pm
Do you know people who are thinking of doing academia? How much does the school support it? Do they make sure your expectations are realistic and tell you it's pretty tough to break into or not? Thanks again for all the answers.
One of my best friends from law school is in academia now. She used to do the TLS thing so there's a possibility she may show up here. I don't want to give out too many of her personal details, but she had previous academic experience before law school. After Chicago, she did a fellowship and is now working as a professor. That said, I think she was far better equipped to enter this world than most due to her prior experience. She knew the game and what you have to do to hack it in that world. Sometimes I felt like she was basically already working as an academic while in law school, writing for publication, organizing symposia, etc. She took full advantage of all of the resources at Chicago available to students trying to break into academia, which from the outside seemed like a lot of "working with professors who cared about helping you make this happen." There are a couple in particular who are very good for this (Strahilevitz probably foremost, from my observation, though I am not sure she'd agree with that!).

I don't have any point of comparison as I don't know anyone from any other schools who went this route, but I would be surprised if any school outside of HYS and maybe NYU provided better support for students wanting to go into academia (with YLS obviously being a cut above the rest). There is a year-long seminar for 2Ls where you go through a sort of whirlwind history of seminal articles in legal academia and are expected to develop a full-length paper for publication. Like - on the level of what you'd be expected to do as a professor submitting an article for publication, not just on the level of a student comment. I did this for a quarter and then ended up dropping the seminar because I wasn't enjoying it and ran into some pretty fundamental roadblocks on the paper I had been planning. There are also weekly workshops run by faculty to discuss papers in progress, and students can sometimes sit in with a professor's invitation (which is usually forthcoming if you are working as a TA or are in certain classes); these provide a great window into how legal academic work is developed. I did have enough of an experience to say that people are very realistic about the state of the legal academia job market. It's not impossible for the right candidates, but it's tough and no one hides the ball on that.
legallybrunette wrote: How is the student culture really? I'm sure you're well aware of its rep as cutthroat/gunner crazy. Someone in the bad old forum had mentioned that a lot of people developed severe mental health issues. A former undergrad (and later YLS grad!) I met told me the rumors are true about the needlessly high stress culture there with regard to grades/studying and lack of support from admin. But that's undergrad and I hear that all of its grad programs are quite a bit different!
I don't know about "a lot of people developed severe mental health issues." I mean, I don't know what's going on at home for the majority of the class. But I didn't see that happening with my friend group, or me. To some degree this is just going to depend on who your circle is - if the people you spend the most time with are having a rough go, and you're having a rough go, it's easy to generalize that and read regular stress signals from everyone else as "wow, we have a mental health problem here" or something. But it would surprise me if it were any worse here than any T13 law school. Law school is a stressful time and place for a lot of people. Most are betting their future and financial well-being on it working out. And for a lot, the reality of that situation doesn't sink in until grades and OCI.

The culture is definitely more "gunner-y," but I never found it cutthroat. People aren't ripping out pages of textbooks in the library or refusing to share notes or any of the horror stories that you year. My experience was that basically everyone was kind and decent and followed normal social etiquette about that stuff. If you weren't friends people would do the normal arm's length stuff. If you were friends people would do more. Study groups were common and camaraderie develops. I think Chicago just attracts more people who view law school as a place to learn interesting stuff and studying as a goal in itself, rather than as a place to suffer through for three years before you get to make the big bucks or whatever. That doesn't mean there aren't people of both types at Chicago (or anywhere else), but I do think the percentage of the former is higher at UofC.

You mostly notice it in class. When I visited other schools for ASW, I always tried to sit in on as many classes as they'd let me, because outside of employment numbers (which you can get through the statistics), the most important thing to me was making sure I'd enjoy being in law school there. Most classes I sat in at other schools were fairly quiet, with a significant part of the class gchatting or shopping or playing games (especially for 2L/3L classes); you'd have the normal dynamic of prof either lecturing or doing socratic method, but not many volunteers asking questions or coming forward with answers. Part of why I wanted to go to Chicago was that it felt like students actually wanted to be in class and to learn shit, and you could tell that through how they acted in class - actively, with generally insightful questions. That was born out when I attended, though it's not like no classes ever fell into the mold of "everyone gchatting or shopping" (fucking admiralty ugh).

I am a double Chicago so probably a little biased; students giving a shit about learning was a plus for me. That said, I think the law school is significantly more normal compared to the undergrad. You had lots of kids in the undergrad who were having their first experience of like "oh my god for the first time in my life there are other people here who I can nerd out with, let's do that ALL THE TIME." It could be just everyone being older, but I didn't feel like there was much of that at the law school in comparison.

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Echos Myron
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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by Echos Myron » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:37 am

What is the PI culture like at UChicago? I'm concerned by its relatively low PI placement over the past few years despite its ostensible ability to place into PI given its employment numbers, prestige, clinical opportunities, and location in a major market.
Do you think that this is the result of self-selection, lack of career services support, lack of proximity to a major legal market for networking/externships, or something else?

BroilersNotStewers
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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by BroilersNotStewers » Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:20 pm

Echos Myron wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:37 am
What is the PI culture like at UChicago? I'm concerned by its relatively low PI placement over the past few years despite its ostensible ability to place into PI given its employment numbers, prestige, clinical opportunities, and location in a major market.
Do you think that this is the result of self-selection, lack of career services support, lack of proximity to a major legal market for networking/externships, or something else?
Well Chicago is one of the largest legal markets in the country so there's no shortage of networking opps. We don't get class credit for externships like some other schools give, but I don't know that that is a major factor.

There definitely aren't a lot of students interested in PI jobs so I'm sure self-selection is big, but I couldn't speak to the quality of career services. I think that the general speculation is that the PI people in career services can actually devote more time to each person interested, but again I'm speculating.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by Echos Myron » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:20 pm

BroilersNotStewers wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:20 pm
Echos Myron wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:37 am
What is the PI culture like at UChicago? I'm concerned by its relatively low PI placement over the past few years despite its ostensible ability to place into PI given its employment numbers, prestige, clinical opportunities, and location in a major market.
Do you think that this is the result of self-selection, lack of career services support, lack of proximity to a major legal market for networking/externships, or something else?
Well Chicago is one of the largest legal markets in the country so there's no shortage of networking opps. We don't get class credit for externships like some other schools give, but I don't know that that is a major factor.

There definitely aren't a lot of students interested in PI jobs so I'm sure self-selection is big, but I couldn't speak to the quality of career services. I think that the general speculation is that the PI people in career services can actually devote more time to each person interested, but again I'm speculating.
Do you have any knowledge of the school funded fellowships (If they exist, how many students get them, etc.) at UChicago? My impression is that they play a major role in alot of students' ability to get jobs at PI orgs that they can turn into a permanent offer down the line.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by Arc » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:52 pm

Checking in; current 3L from the old forum (different name here). Happy to answer general Qs, and in particular Qs about secondary journals, mooting, culture, working during LS.

To quickly address a few things I read above:

— my class has plenty of PI-oriented people. Most people focus on private practice in the short term, but plenty of people have long-term goals of PI/government.

— It can be gunnerish, but it really is up to you. After 1L, life is as chill or as intense as you make it. Plenty of people stick with chill relaxed folks and have a nice time; others stay gunnerish forever; others strike a balance. You’ll find your people in that regard.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by archipm » Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:37 pm

Current 2L. There are definitely people into PI. I am one of them so I might be overestimating how many of us there are. That said, the main public interest career advisor basically discourages interested students from pursuing PI - every single person I've talked to who has tried to meet with her has had the same experience. She tries to talk you into doing biglaw and transitioning to PI a few years down the line, which isn't a terrible idea for many people, but isn't quite the same as providing strong support for students who want to do PI. Professors, especially the ones in the clinics, are probably more helpful.

On the mental health point: I'd say it's fair to say there is a mental health problem at UChicago as an institution generally. That said, the crazy stress culture that's pervasive in the college is not something I've observed in the law school to any extent worse than what I imagine any other law school is like. Also, the folks at Student Disability Services have been some of the most competent, empathetic, and efficient administrators I've dealt with at any institution, although others' reviews vary. If you're a prospective student with chronic illness or mental health concerns feel free to PM me and I'd be happy to talk about it a little less cryptically.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by squid-pro-quo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:43 pm

beep wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:52 am
  • This isn't a class and is probably obvious, but don't do journal. And if you do, especially don't do e-board. Biggest mistake of law school, for me; almost singlehandedly wrecked 3L.
Arc wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:52 pm
Checking in; current 3L from the old forum (different name here). Happy to answer general Qs, and in particular Qs about secondary journals, mooting, culture, working during LS.
Current 1L here. If Fall Quarter grades are any indication, I won't be grade-on eligible for Law Review, and honestly I'm more interested in one of the secondary journals anyway. @beep, based on what you've heard from friends, would you extend your advice against journal to the secondary ones, as well, or mainly just Law Review? Is interest in the subject matter of a secondary journal worth anything, or do you still think, on the whole, that it's just a soul-sucking experience to be avoided (unless you're hoping to clerk and/or enter academia)? @Arc, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts/experiences regarding secondary journals, too. They haven't given us the "journal talk" yet, so we're still pretty clueless as to what you guys actually do (other than presumably suffer in a windowless Law School basement). Is it realistic to do both a clinic and one of the journals?

Also, as 1Ls, we take five classes per quarter. Is that standard throughout 2L and 3L, too, or does the credit breakdown make it possible to take fewer classes each term? Again, nobody's talked to us about any of this, and I'm trying to give myself hope that one day things will be better than they are right now.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by Echos Myron » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:09 pm

archipm wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:37 pm
Current 2L. There are definitely people into PI. I am one of them so I might be overestimating how many of us there are. That said, the main public interest career advisor basically discourages interested students from pursuing PI - every single person I've talked to who has tried to meet with her has had the same experience. She tries to talk you into doing biglaw and transitioning to PI a few years down the line, which isn't a terrible idea for many people, but isn't quite the same as providing strong support for students who want to do PI. Professors, especially the ones in the clinics, are probably more helpful.
How has this impacted your job search? (I realize that PI hiring happens during 3L, but if you have any insight as to how that has affected 3L people in the PI community, I would love to hear it!)
Also, what type of PI are you interested in and how confident do you feel about landing a position in that field during 3L from Uchi? Thanks for any insight :)

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by archipm » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:53 pm

squid-pro-quo wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:43 pm
@Arc, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts/experiences regarding secondary journals, too. They haven't given us the "journal talk" yet, so we're still pretty clueless as to what you guys actually do (other than presumably suffer in a windowless Law School basement). Is it realistic to do both a clinic and one of the journals?

Also, as 1Ls, we take five classes per quarter. Is that standard throughout 2L and 3L, too, or does the credit breakdown make it possible to take fewer classes each term? Again, nobody's talked to us about any of this, and I'm trying to give myself hope that one day things will be better than they are right now.
I chose not to do the writing competition for various reasons so I can't really comment on any journals except secondhand knowledge that it's a lot of work (somewhat obviously) and at this point I don't regret skipping it.

You need 105 credits to graduate and at the end of 1L you'll have completed 40. There are other requirements for like which types of classes you need to take however many credits of but 65 credits over 6 terms works out to lighter credit loads per term. (1L is 13, 13, and 14). You can see the degree requirements here.

Edit: I'm dumb and thought that question was aimed at me :lol:
Last edited by archipm on Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by archipm » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:17 pm

Echos Myron wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:09 pm
How has this impacted your job search? (I realize that PI hiring happens during 3L, but if you have any insight as to how that has affected 3L people in the PI community, I would love to hear it!)
Also, what type of PI are you interested in and how confident do you feel about landing a position in that field during 3L from Uchi? Thanks for any insight :)
I can't speak to 3Ls' experiences and I think it's kind of different for everyone depending on what specific type of work they're trying to do. I'm into environmental and energy stuff and I am pretty confident I can get a job in the field. I'm not really restricted geographically so I can apply broadly and the clinical faculty are really well connected and excited to help students network. I was a little worried going into the summer hiring window for PI for 2L summer since relative to the people going to firms, it seemed like everything was up in the air for a lot longer, but I applied broadly to different gov and PI internships and got a lot of responses, which I think is a good sign for next year. Alternatively, I also know other students with similar interests who are doing SAs for 2L summer and intend to look for post-grad PI work during 3L while holding the firm as a backup plan, and students with similar interests who are going to firms with intent to learn a bit there and then move on to government. From talking with folks who've been in the field for a while, it seems like environmental and energy are a little different from some other types of PI work in that there are ways you can work in a firm's energy practice without it being the complete opposite of what you wanted to do, whereas some other types of PI work are not likely to come up in your work at a firm except maybe as pro bono. On a slightly related note, our LRAP is pretty good so that helps take financial pressure off in looking at state environmental agencies, etc., for work that isn't going to pay a whole lot.

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Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by Echos Myron » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:26 pm

archipm wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:17 pm
Echos Myron wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:09 pm
How has this impacted your job search? (I realize that PI hiring happens during 3L, but if you have any insight as to how that has affected 3L people in the PI community, I would love to hear it!)
Also, what type of PI are you interested in and how confident do you feel about landing a position in that field during 3L from Uchi? Thanks for any insight :)
I can't speak to 3Ls' experiences and I think it's kind of different for everyone depending on what specific type of work they're trying to do. I'm into environmental and energy stuff and I am pretty confident I can get a job in the field. I'm not really restricted geographically so I can apply broadly and the clinical faculty are really well connected and excited to help students network. I was a little worried going into the summer hiring window for PI for 2L summer since relative to the people going to firms, it seemed like everything was up in the air for a lot longer, but I applied broadly to different gov and PI internships and got a lot of responses, which I think is a good sign for next year. Alternatively, I also know other students with similar interests who are doing SAs for 2L summer and intend to look for post-grad PI work during 3L while holding the firm as a backup plan, and students with similar interests who are going to firms with intent to learn a bit there and then move on to government. From talking with folks who've been in the field for a while, it seems like environmental and energy are a little different from some other types of PI work in that there are ways you can work in a firm's energy practice without it being the complete opposite of what you wanted to do, whereas some other types of PI work are not likely to come up in your work at a firm except maybe as pro bono. On a slightly related note, our LRAP is pretty good so that helps take financial pressure off in looking at state environmental agencies, etc., for work that isn't going to pay a whole lot.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I really appreciate it! (and it's great to see people going into E&E PI work - we need it)

Daddy
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:33 am

Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by Daddy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:37 pm

For you 2Ls and 3Ls who are below median or at median, are you at all nervous about your job prospects? Do you already have jobs lined up?
Do you know of others who have not done well academically? And if yes, how are they feeling about their prospects of landing 180k?

Also, did any of you pay sticker/close to it? Was being 240K+ debt worth it?

Daddy
Posts: 126
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:33 am

Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by Daddy » Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:38 pm

On the other side, for those who are near the top of the class, did you try transferring to HYS to secure more $$$$??

necho2
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:57 am

Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by necho2 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:29 pm

Daddy wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:38 pm
On the other side, for those who are near the top of the class, did you try transferring to HYS to secure more $$$$??
How would you get more money from the three schools that don't get merit scholarships?

And the more obvious response to your question is- why would you? Top of the class at UChicago gives you better options than being a transfer at any of those schools (I'm sure there are situations where this isn't true, but you'd have to have pretty specific preferences).

One thing that I've sort of noticed is that while top of class + FedSoc here means you'll almost certainly snag a feeder clerkship if you want it, liberal feeder clerkships are much harder to find. Not sure if that is a numbers game in regard to how small UChicago is (and how much more elite student competition there is for liberal feeders), but definitely feels like our clerking numbers are shored up by the FedSoc pipeline.

squid-pro-quo
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:16 pm

Re: UChicago Students and Grads Taking Questions and providing positive externalities

Post by squid-pro-quo » Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:43 pm

necho2 wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:29 pm
Daddy wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:38 pm
On the other side, for those who are near the top of the class, did you try transferring to HYS to secure more $$$$??
How would you get more money from the three schools that don't get merit scholarships?

And the more obvious response to your question is- why would you? Top of the class at UChicago gives you better options than being a transfer at any of those schools (I'm sure there are situations where this isn't true, but you'd have to have pretty specific preferences).

One thing that I've sort of noticed is that while top of class + FedSoc here means you'll almost certainly snag a feeder clerkship if you want it, liberal feeder clerkships are much harder to find. Not sure if that is a numbers game in regard to how small UChicago is (and how much more elite student competition there is for liberal feeders), but definitely feels like our clerking numbers are shored up by the FedSoc pipeline.
I think the poster is talking about applying to transfer to HYS so that UChicago is "on notice" and, in an attempt to convince you to stay, will up your financial aid award. As far as I know, this isn't a "thing" here. I don't think the Law School negotiates like that. If you have top grades and want to transfer out, you're certainly free to, but like necho2 says...just...no.

Edited: And in case the poster *did* mean *actually* transferring to HYS in order to secure more money, again...just...no.

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