Dropping Out and Reapplying

Discuss comparisons of various school choices and the various metrics that inform them, including rankings, student life, location, etc.
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UVA2B
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by UVA2B » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:45 pm

Congratulations on getting an offer, and hopefully you can realize your goals from that firm, even if you don't think it's a great firm from the outset. It's not easy for any of us to know what that means contextually, so I'll assume you think you deserve/want better for your goals.

I'll just say that your complaints about your school relative to Harvard are pretty funny, because you don't seem willing to clarify your complaints about your school in any meaningful way. "Reasons intrinsic to the school" is nonsense, and you know that more than likely. Your school isn't objectively awful, and it's not a sham or a farce, even if you're unhappy with your choice. Not everything would be fixed by going back in time and attending Harvard, or at least predictably so. Maybe you wanted to end up at W&C in DC, and you thought you could achieve that from CCN, but it didn't work out. Or maybe you really wanted to find your way to EDNY, so you wanted WLRK, Cravath, Boies, or another lit firm that does well in EDNY, so you thought it was basically the same to go to CLS or NYU vs. H. I don't want to project too heavily onto the goals you haven't clarified, but I have yet to see a good reason why Harvard would magically cure the ills of going to any of CCN. If you have a large personality conflict with the students and/or the faculty/admin at your CCN, it's quite possibly on you for not realizing those things would drastically affect your perception of your law school.

Sorry you didn't choose to go to Harvard for your personal reasons, and hopefully you'll make better personal choices in the future that fit with your conception of good personal choices.

WEED_QUESTIONER_420
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by WEED_QUESTIONER_420 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:50 pm

Thanks.

I kind of have to be vague to preserve anonymity/obscure which specific school I am at, you understand.
you really wanted to find your way to EDNY, so you wanted WLRK, Cravath, Boies, or another lit firm that does well in EDNY
damn, I didn't know you had to be at firms that elite to get EDNY.
Last edited by WEED_QUESTIONER_420 on Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

lolwat
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by lolwat » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:52 am

WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:57 pm
lolwat wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:38 pm
I'm so confused here. Did you get bad grades because you hate the school, or do you hate the school because you got bad grades there and now you think you're screwed because you're just median at CCN versus whatever you might have been at HYS? Either way, it just seems really weird to me that somebody can have such an extreme loathing for their school that it's affecting them so badly emotionally and psychologically. I just literally can't think of anything that would be so absolutely horrible about a school that would lead to this.

Anyway, I know you're not going to get into personal details, but it's clear to me there's something going on, and my gut feeling is that this attitude is seeping through to interviews. Being a little informal and rambley isn't going to generally leave somebody at median at CCN with absolutely nothing.

As for massmailing, just keep doing it and use your judgment as to where you reapply to. I mean if you got radio silence for 2 weeks but haven't gotten rejecte, don't reapply yet. If you've been ghosted for 6 months, then yeah go ahead.
I hate the school because of reasons intrinsic to the school and because I could have gone to H instead. I don't blame the school for my grades or my OCI outcome.

If it seems weird to you, then I guess...you're lucky you didn't hate your school? Mine is fucking awful. It's a sham and a farce. I really am not looking forward to going back. I hate hate hate it and my hate for it is multiplied by the fact I stupidly and immorally chose it over H. I would advise anyone considering my school to not go there if they asked me in person. It is a school that absolutely does not give a shit about its students and does everything in the worst way possible. But anyways...

I am not sure whether anything weird seeped into the interviews. I think I was genuinely pretty friendly and upbeat. Nobody can tell I harbor that kind of hatred for my school and deep sorrow and anger over my law school decision if I don't tell them. If being a little informal and rambling should still have seen me get more callbacks, then I am quite worried because I am running out of ideas as to what could have gone wrong...

I did end up getting an offer. It's not a great firm, but it's big law, and I am grateful for it nonetheless.
Congratulations on your offer. I can't speak to what you consider a "great firm" (Vault rankings/prestige?) but biglaw is biglaw, and you don't have to start at the top to get to the top. Also, you've still got clerkship applications to go, and if you get one, you can always try to trade up for a better firm then. For now, I'd focus on your grades and getting an offer after your summer.

As for the rest, it's clearly a very personal thing for you, but I would just take a step back and speak with someone that you trust that can be objective about this. I just don't see hating an institution that much for any reason. I really don't. I disliked my school and have often regretted going there over some other options I had. I feel like I've been successful despite my school rather than because of it. But it's just not a toxic relationship or toxic work environment.

I have no doubt that you certainly try to be as friendly and upbeat as you can, but it's just my experience both as an interviewee and interviewer that when you've got some emotional and psychological problems going on, little subtle and often unconscious things about your answers or body language and such tend to get through. Not everyone necessarily picks up on those things, but sometimes people do feel like things are a little "off" with an applicant who might otherwise be friendly and upbeat.

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Nony
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by Nony » Mon Aug 26, 2019 6:25 am

WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:57 pm
I hate the school because of reasons intrinsic to the school and because I could have gone to H instead.

my hate for it is multiplied by the fact I stupidly and immorally chose it over H.
So, I don’t have any issues with you hating your law school (I do think it’s possible), but I think you’re putting H on a kind of pedestal here that’s unhealthy. Like blueapple suggested earlier, you don’t actually know that you wouldn’t have hated H, too (because while I think it’s fair to hate your school I’m not sure how different schools really are and it seems likely that at least some of the things you hate about your current school, you’d hate about any law school). And “immoral” is a really really weird way to describe the choice you made. I say this only because this is something you might want to work through in the future?
I am not sure whether anything weird seeped into the interviews. I think I was genuinely pretty friendly and upbeat. Nobody can tell I harbor that kind of hatred for my school and deep sorrow and anger over my law school decision if I don't tell them.
I know you don’t think this is the case, but I would be willing to bet that in fact your attitude did seep through. These are the kinds of feelings that are hard to conceal and it’s not always obvious to the person feeling them how evident they actually are. That’s not meant as a personal criticism, at all - again, just something to look out for in future.

But in any case, congrats on your offer and good luck!

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icechicken
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by icechicken » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:28 pm

WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:57 pm
Mine is fucking awful. It's a sham and a farce [...] It is a school that absolutely does not give a shit about its students and does everything in the worst way possible.
If you're unreasonable enough to think this about any of Columbia/Chicago/NYU then it might comfort you to know you would've felt the same way about Harvard too.

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pancakes3
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by pancakes3 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:41 pm

but also maybe cut the OP some slack. striking out is not an easy thing to cope with.

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cavalier1138
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 5:30 am

WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:57 pm
I hate hate hate it and my hate for it is multiplied by the fact I stupidly and immorally chose it over H.
Oh, come on now...

LawSSS2
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by LawSSS2 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:25 pm

lolwat wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:38 pm
Either way, it just seems really weird to me that somebody can have such an extreme loathing for their school that it's affecting them so badly emotionally and psychologically. I just literally can't think of anything that would be so absolutely horrible about a school that would lead to this.

Anyway, I know you're not going to get into personal details, but it's clear to me there's something going on, and my gut feeling is that this attitude is seeping through to interviews. Being a little informal and rambley isn't going to generally leave somebody at median at CCN with absolutely nothing.

If you understood what happened at UChicago this year, it would be easier to see how these feelings developed. I don't know where OP goes though.

lolwat
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by lolwat » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:31 pm

LawSSS2 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:25 pm
lolwat wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:38 pm
Either way, it just seems really weird to me that somebody can have such an extreme loathing for their school that it's affecting them so badly emotionally and psychologically. I just literally can't think of anything that would be so absolutely horrible about a school that would lead to this.

Anyway, I know you're not going to get into personal details, but it's clear to me there's something going on, and my gut feeling is that this attitude is seeping through to interviews. Being a little informal and rambley isn't going to generally leave somebody at median at CCN with absolutely nothing.

If you understood what happened at UChicago this year, it would be easier to see how these feelings developed. I don't know where OP goes though.
I don't know everything that goes on at Chicago and likely don't know what specifically you're referring to, but I've seen some news stories over the last year or so to get a flavor of general things. Hate your school (or your professor, or other students) for whatever reason you want, but don't let that cause such emotional and psychological problems so as to affect your success.

LawSSS2
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by LawSSS2 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:14 pm

lolwat wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:31 pm
LawSSS2 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:25 pm
lolwat wrote:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:38 pm
Either way, it just seems really weird to me that somebody can have such an extreme loathing for their school that it's affecting them so badly emotionally and psychologically. I just literally can't think of anything that would be so absolutely horrible about a school that would lead to this.

Anyway, I know you're not going to get into personal details, but it's clear to me there's something going on, and my gut feeling is that this attitude is seeping through to interviews. Being a little informal and rambley isn't going to generally leave somebody at median at CCN with absolutely nothing.

If you understood what happened at UChicago this year, it would be easier to see how these feelings developed. I don't know where OP goes though.
I don't know everything that goes on at Chicago and likely don't know what specifically you're referring to, but I've seen some news stories over the last year or so to get a flavor of general things. Hate your school (or your professor, or other students) for whatever reason you want, but don't let that cause such emotional and psychological problems so as to affect your success.
What I'm referring to has not hit the news... As a result of what's been happening on campus, students have been put in secret disciplinary hearings, expelled and/or have been fired from their jobs this past year. If you are impacted, or directly involved in these incidents, or otherwise close to these individuals, the environment at the school is probably really stressful for you right now. Obviously the goal is to not let it affect your success, but the prospect of returning to such an institution can be miserable.

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cavalier1138
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:12 am

LawSSS2 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:14 pm
What I'm referring to has not hit the news... As a result of what's been happening on campus, students have been put in secret disciplinary hearings, expelled and/or have been fired from their jobs this past year. If you are impacted, or directly involved in these incidents, or otherwise close to these individuals, the environment at the school is probably really stressful for you right now. Obviously the goal is to not let it affect your success, but the prospect of returning to such an institution can be miserable.
People were expelled or fired for campus activism?

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icechicken
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by icechicken » Mon Sep 02, 2019 12:51 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 8:12 am
LawSSS2 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:14 pm
What I'm referring to has not hit the news... As a result of what's been happening on campus, students have been put in secret disciplinary hearings, expelled and/or have been fired from their jobs this past year. If you are impacted, or directly involved in these incidents, or otherwise close to these individuals, the environment at the school is probably really stressful for you right now. Obviously the goal is to not let it affect your success, but the prospect of returning to such an institution can be miserable.
People were expelled or fired for campus activism?
https://www.chicagomaroon.com/article/2 ... e-day-one/

Admin have been willing to go to the mat on grad-student unionization and I wouldn't be surprised if people were kicked from their PhD program or student job. From what I hear, it's hard to overstate how high feelings were running on campus.

On the other hand, that stuff didn't really heat up till the spring and didn't directly touch the law school at Chicago so who knows if that's what OP is talking about.

WEED_QUESTIONER_420
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by WEED_QUESTIONER_420 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:17 pm

not what I was talking about

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necho2
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by necho2 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:01 pm

WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:33 pm
I mean this respectfully, but median grades at CCN shouldn’t be a death sentence for your goals.
Getting a federal clerkship with median grades? I am quite skeptical. But that is also far from my concerns at the moment.
If you're only about to start 2L, it's way too early to dismiss the possibility of getting a fed clerkship out of CCN, and way too early to anticipate having median grades at graduation if you plan on working hard to change that. Geographic flexibility and trying to do well in generously graded seminars will get you pretty far on both fronts.

WEED_QUESTIONER_420
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by WEED_QUESTIONER_420 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:13 pm

necho2 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:01 pm
WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:33 pm
I mean this respectfully, but median grades at CCN shouldn’t be a death sentence for your goals.
Getting a federal clerkship with median grades? I am quite skeptical. But that is also far from my concerns at the moment.
If you're only about to start 2L, it's way too early to dismiss the possibility of getting a fed clerkship out of CCN, and way too early to anticipate having median grades at graduation if you plan on working hard to change that. Geographic flexibility and trying to do well in generously graded seminars will get you pretty far on both fronts.
What do you mean by "generously graded seminars"--aren't seminars still subject to the same curve as the other classes?

Thanks

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necho2
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by necho2 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:27 pm

Plenty of seminars at UChicago (only CCN I know about) are curved up to a 178/179. Do just a little better than average there, and you're looking at a 180 (i.e. an A). Maybe NYU/CLS don't do that at all in seminars, but my general impression is that plenty of people (especially those doing transactional) coast after 1L, and if you're motivated to boost your grades, it's easier to do so.

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cavalier1138
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by cavalier1138 » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:06 pm

WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:17 pm
not what I was talking about
Well, do you want to share what you were talking about? You're on an anonymous online forum.

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RichardMilhousNixon
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by RichardMilhousNixon » Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:47 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:06 pm
WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:17 pm
not what I was talking about
Well, do you want to share what you were talking about? You're on an anonymous online forum.
My money's on a break-up.

WEED_QUESTIONER_420
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by WEED_QUESTIONER_420 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:45 am

RichardMilhousNixon wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:47 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:06 pm
WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:17 pm
not what I was talking about
Well, do you want to share what you were talking about? You're on an anonymous online forum.
My money's on a break-up.
lol no

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cavalier1138
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:33 am

WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:45 am
RichardMilhousNixon wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:47 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:06 pm
WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:17 pm
not what I was talking about
Well, do you want to share what you were talking about? You're on an anonymous online forum.
My money's on a break-up.
lol no
Super-helpful. It's hard to believe that you have problems with drug use.

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Nony
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by Nony » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:11 am

TBF, the OP has described this as being about the school and people should stop trying to divine the OP’s personal failings. There may be personal things exacerbating that, but it is possible to hate your school and develop a really bad relationship with the powers that be. (My school had this one guy who felt hard done by about all kinds of things - including a lower grade distribution in his section of a 1L class than in other sections, which led him to a vendetta against that particular prof, who is an awesome person and also an older woman who wasn’t going to take any shit from an entitled dude law student. When someone else I know was meeting with one of the deans during 1L summer, I think about student government stuff, somehow it got mentioned that this dude already had a file like 4 inches thick in the dean’s office. Now, I think this dude was a genuine asshole, and I’m not drawing the comparison to the OP on those grounds, but I’m pretty sure the dude in my class hated the school and thought it treated students terribly, too.)

WEED_QUESTIONER_420
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by WEED_QUESTIONER_420 » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:17 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:33 am
WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:45 am
RichardMilhousNixon wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:47 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:06 pm
WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:17 pm
not what I was talking about
Well, do you want to share what you were talking about? You're on an anonymous online forum.
My money's on a break-up.
lol no
Super-helpful. It's hard to believe that you have problems with drug use.
I think you have retrograde views about drug use, and sound like a smug asshole. In order to know whether someone has a drug problem, you'd have to know a lot more about their life than what I have revealed on here.

My law school fucking sucks. The onus lies on the administration. It is incompetent and doesn't seem to care about its students. I don't think you'll find a lot of people around here who truly like the school. I don't want to reveal more specific details because I don't want my identity compromised.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by Danger Zone » Wed Sep 25, 2019 12:55 pm

No more personal shots in either direction ITT.

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waldorf
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by waldorf » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:11 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:33 am
WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:45 am
RichardMilhousNixon wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:47 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:06 pm
WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:17 pm
not what I was talking about
Well, do you want to share what you were talking about? You're on an anonymous online forum.
My money's on a break-up.
lol no
Super-helpful. It's hard to believe that you have problems with drug use.
this is a stupid and overly judgmental post

note1L
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Re: Dropping Out and Reapplying

Post by note1L » Thu Oct 03, 2019 11:06 am

waldorf wrote:
Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:11 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:33 am
WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:45 am
RichardMilhousNixon wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:47 pm
cavalier1138 wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:06 pm
WEED_QUESTIONER_420 wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:17 pm
not what I was talking about
Well, do you want to share what you were talking about? You're on an anonymous online forum.
My money's on a break-up.
lol no
Super-helpful. It's hard to believe that you have problems with drug use.
this is a stupid and overly judgmental post

Agreed.

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