CS career megathread / AMA

FuzzyDunlop
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by FuzzyDunlop » Fri May 11, 2018 12:06 pm

guest wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 2:20 am
FuzzyDunlop wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 2:30 pm
guest wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 12:35 pm


for the talent to fill Senior SWE positions, ive heard managers say they can't find talent, but not sure if it's due to real lack of talent or due to unwillingness of managers to pull the trigger on who they want to hire. hiring someone and getting them to a point where it all works out requires a good deal of effort, and managers at times simply keep pushing out even good candidates to buy more time for projects.
Did you see the blog post I linked about why the vast majority of computer science grads can't code or pass a simple whiteboard interview? So think about how many interview applicants they have to go through to find a candidate that can pass.

Many times, that candidate isn't American. So you the manager has to make sure they're a culture fit and can get accustomed to American work culture. Or understands how things work differently here, especially if they're from a very different culture like India or Pakistan.

Otherwise, that whole cycle starts again. For some of them, they'd rather just keep the lazy but productive-when-he-wants-to-be Senior SWE they already have than deal with that.
not sure which one that is as there are a couple of links here. can you link that one? i hear it very often as i mentioned before but really i think a lot of this is one of those things where people complain about things that they have power over. i've seen too many brilliant engineers being evaluated by lazy hiring managers who would likely not succeed in the management ladder as not being able to pass a "simple coding test" just because hiring manger is hung up on some trivia about a language that no one knows or cares about. too many managers place emphasis on things primarily because they know them not because they're really crucial to being a "good" sw engineer. in my work, i see everyday managers with open requisitions for a year rejecting solid candidates because they weren't able to find the one they "like" (it's couched differently tho). and it's not hard to see the real reasons. the group typically would have no career path for engineers or clear processes, engineers and managers are in perpetual firefight mode with little regard for the next hire who comes in through the pipeline, and company recruiters who are only do the minimal necessary to make sure they get their salary or commission.

https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant- ... s-program/


Also, if we're talking about cushy jobs, in-house tech recruiter for companies like Facebook/Google/Microsoft/Amazon/Apple - now those are cush. Most of the ones I know always say they're stressed, but they work like 3x a week from home and there's little accountability.

Kodokushiest
Posts: 2892
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by Kodokushiest » Sat May 12, 2018 7:28 pm

FuzzyDunlop wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:06 pm
guest wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 2:20 am
FuzzyDunlop wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 2:30 pm
guest wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 12:35 pm


for the talent to fill Senior SWE positions, ive heard managers say they can't find talent, but not sure if it's due to real lack of talent or due to unwillingness of managers to pull the trigger on who they want to hire. hiring someone and getting them to a point where it all works out requires a good deal of effort, and managers at times simply keep pushing out even good candidates to buy more time for projects.
Did you see the blog post I linked about why the vast majority of computer science grads can't code or pass a simple whiteboard interview? So think about how many interview applicants they have to go through to find a candidate that can pass.

Many times, that candidate isn't American. So you the manager has to make sure they're a culture fit and can get accustomed to American work culture. Or understands how things work differently here, especially if they're from a very different culture like India or Pakistan.

Otherwise, that whole cycle starts again. For some of them, they'd rather just keep the lazy but productive-when-he-wants-to-be Senior SWE they already have than deal with that.
not sure which one that is as there are a couple of links here. can you link that one? i hear it very often as i mentioned before but really i think a lot of this is one of those things where people complain about things that they have power over. i've seen too many brilliant engineers being evaluated by lazy hiring managers who would likely not succeed in the management ladder as not being able to pass a "simple coding test" just because hiring manger is hung up on some trivia about a language that no one knows or cares about. too many managers place emphasis on things primarily because they know them not because they're really crucial to being a "good" sw engineer. in my work, i see everyday managers with open requisitions for a year rejecting solid candidates because they weren't able to find the one they "like" (it's couched differently tho). and it's not hard to see the real reasons. the group typically would have no career path for engineers or clear processes, engineers and managers are in perpetual firefight mode with little regard for the next hire who comes in through the pipeline, and company recruiters who are only do the minimal necessary to make sure they get their salary or commission.

https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant- ... s-program/


Also, if we're talking about cushy jobs, in-house tech recruiter for companies like Facebook/Google/Microsoft/Amazon/Apple - now those are cush. Most of the ones I know always say they're stressed, but they work like 3x a week from home and there's little accountability.
Just looked it up, and those salaries are obscene.

FuzzyDunlop
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by FuzzyDunlop » Mon May 14, 2018 6:48 pm

Kodokushiest wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 7:28 pm
FuzzyDunlop wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:06 pm
guest wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 2:20 am
FuzzyDunlop wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 2:30 pm
guest wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 12:35 pm


for the talent to fill Senior SWE positions, ive heard managers say they can't find talent, but not sure if it's due to real lack of talent or due to unwillingness of managers to pull the trigger on who they want to hire. hiring someone and getting them to a point where it all works out requires a good deal of effort, and managers at times simply keep pushing out even good candidates to buy more time for projects.
Did you see the blog post I linked about why the vast majority of computer science grads can't code or pass a simple whiteboard interview? So think about how many interview applicants they have to go through to find a candidate that can pass.

Many times, that candidate isn't American. So you the manager has to make sure they're a culture fit and can get accustomed to American work culture. Or understands how things work differently here, especially if they're from a very different culture like India or Pakistan.

Otherwise, that whole cycle starts again. For some of them, they'd rather just keep the lazy but productive-when-he-wants-to-be Senior SWE they already have than deal with that.
not sure which one that is as there are a couple of links here. can you link that one? i hear it very often as i mentioned before but really i think a lot of this is one of those things where people complain about things that they have power over. i've seen too many brilliant engineers being evaluated by lazy hiring managers who would likely not succeed in the management ladder as not being able to pass a "simple coding test" just because hiring manger is hung up on some trivia about a language that no one knows or cares about. too many managers place emphasis on things primarily because they know them not because they're really crucial to being a "good" sw engineer. in my work, i see everyday managers with open requisitions for a year rejecting solid candidates because they weren't able to find the one they "like" (it's couched differently tho). and it's not hard to see the real reasons. the group typically would have no career path for engineers or clear processes, engineers and managers are in perpetual firefight mode with little regard for the next hire who comes in through the pipeline, and company recruiters who are only do the minimal necessary to make sure they get their salary or commission.

https://blog.codinghorror.com/why-cant- ... s-program/


Also, if we're talking about cushy jobs, in-house tech recruiter for companies like Facebook/Google/Microsoft/Amazon/Apple - now those are cush. Most of the ones I know always say they're stressed, but they work like 3x a week from home and there's little accountability.
Just looked it up, and those salaries are obscene.
There's very little barrier to employment too as far as education or certification required. Any degree will do (you see tons of liberal arts majors), no professional certification required, no testing.

I can't believe what the in-house tech Recruiters I know make for the little actual work that they do. They get the same company perks/benefits as the software engineers without needing any of the talent or technical ability. They have a lower salary, but their work isn't anything that requires special knowledge or expertise (a high school graduate could probably figure it out).

It's amazing to me it's not more well-known or more people don't pursue it. I guess unless you've worked at one of the major tech companies, you wouldn't know. :lol:

I've wanted to ask some in-house legal recruiters why they don't switch over to tech companies. Way more laidback atmosphere, better company benefits, the office is going to have cooler stuff (free food, games rooms, gyms, special stores, club memberships). Instead of having to deal whiny Brad all day fresh from Cornell who's K-JD, you get to interview some savant from Tsinghua just happy to be there. And if your day is still equally as bad as at a law firm, then go grab a bike from the co-op and ride it around campus. Or play some volleyball with co-workers outside or catch the live music in the outdoor eating area.
Last edited by FuzzyDunlop on Mon May 14, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Guest

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by Guest » Mon May 14, 2018 6:53 pm

As somebody who's worked a high-paid/low-skill job, it can be kind of soul-sucking if you're the wrong personality type for it. Especially if you hang out with a lot of gunnery, ambitious people (which given that we're on the off-shoot of TLS, a lot of us do), it can kind of eat at you to realize you're getting highly paid to build no transferable skills.

FuzzyDunlop
Posts: 23
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2018 3:26 pm

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by FuzzyDunlop » Tue May 15, 2018 5:11 pm

Guest wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 6:53 pm
As somebody who's worked a high-paid/low-skill job, it can be kind of soul-sucking if you're the wrong personality type for it. Especially if you hang out with a lot of gunnery, ambitious people (which given that we're on the off-shoot of TLS, a lot of us do), it can kind of eat at you to realize you're getting highly paid to build no transferable skills.
Transferable skills? They can transfer their skills as a Recruiter to another tech company (usually from big tech to startup) for higher pay and compensation. For a better chance at stock bonuses.

Law students and fresh associates always say the weirdest stuff about "transferable skills", like "Oh you don't build transferable skills in doc review." Or "You don't get transferable law skills in insurance defense." What does that even mean and who the hell cares? What's more transferable a skill of pushing paperwork through at Cravath than pushing paperwork through for an insurance company? :roll:

Transferable skills are whatever you sell it as. I've seen doc reviewers turn into paralegals into in-house at big name tech companies. I've seen recruiters or customer service reps turned into pms (much higher salary, better stocks). You know what their "transferable skill" is - the art of BSing.

If people were seriously interested in transferring skills, they'd major in applied math.

Also, if you're in a high paid/low skill job, what are you looking to transfer into? Going from 20 hours of actual work a week and a 6 digit paycheck with great perks, to 10 hours of actual work, a corner office, and a pension?

Kodokushiest
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:38 pm

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by Kodokushiest » Wed May 16, 2018 8:49 am

Guest wrote:
Mon May 14, 2018 6:53 pm
As somebody who's worked a high-paid/low-skill job, it can be kind of soul-sucking if you're the wrong personality type for it. Especially if you hang out with a lot of gunnery, ambitious people (which given that we're on the off-shoot of TLS, a lot of us do), it can kind of eat at you to realize you're getting highly paid to build no transferable skills.
This is such a bizarre outlook to me.

Guest

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by Guest » Thu May 17, 2018 1:52 pm

app wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:40 am
Kodokushiest wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:21 pm
FuzzyDunlop wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:58 am
Guest wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:49 am
I think prestigious is Rhodes Scholar, PhD, some truly wxceptional softs. I don’t think working at a big tech company is really considered prestigious.
Yeah, aside from big tech company's amazing perks, great lifestyle, and large salaries (with total comp of seniors exceeding big law attorneys many times), and a "wtf is this dude applying to law school for?" reaction from the admissions department, it probably won't make a difference.

Most people have no clue how hard Facebook or Google is to get in as an engineer, how much their stock perks are worth, or how prestigious they are outside of the Bay Area. Most people outside of SV think software engineers don't make a lot of money and it's a dime a dozen job.
I really don't think this is true.
i thought it was the opposite that non-SV people think of FB/Goog as unicorns where only geniuses work. we know that Mck/Bain/BCG name makes difference in HLS. so why not goog/fb?
they're similar for bschools where goog/fb/apple name in tech or Mck/Bain/BCG name in consulting does make a big difference when applying to schools like HBS.
To bring up an old thread, B-school apps are a different animal entirely than law school apps. B-school more or less requires work experience, and from what I understand, it's the most important part of the application such that high numbers can't really make up for shoddy work experience.

Law school applications happily take K-JDs and care nearly exclusively about numbers that keep their medians high. I don't think any work experience will move the needle that much. I did notice people with similar numbers and good work experience getting scholarships, though.

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beep
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by beep » Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:57 pm

suralin wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:33 am
Sura and others,

Anyone know anything about UI/UX bootcamps? Teh gf is looking to go this route and has been doing a lot of research, but not really finding conclusive answers on what would be the best. Some leaning toward General Assembly (which seems correct based on my [very short] research). My uneducated advice just after reading this thread and the links in it is (a) spend a ton of time before the bootcamp getting really good, and (b) to look for the best one that will provide some signaling/credentialist boost plus set her up the best for networking. But I don't actually have any idea about which that might be. Any ideas?

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suralin
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by suralin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:09 am

beep wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:57 pm
suralin wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:33 am
Sura and others,

Anyone know anything about UI/UX bootcamps? Teh gf is looking to go this route and has been doing a lot of research, but not really finding conclusive answers on what would be the best. Some leaning toward General Assembly (which seems correct based on my [very short] research). My uneducated advice just after reading this thread and the links in it is (a) spend a ton of time before the bootcamp getting really good, and (b) to look for the best one that will provide some signaling/credentialist boost plus set her up the best for networking. But I don't actually have any idea about which that might be. Any ideas?
sorry just saw this, but i really have no idea about those bootcamps. the only advice i'd have would be things y'all are already doing / aware of like lots of research and getting good pre-bootcamp

e: oh maybe make sure the bootcamp has a focus on project-based learning and building a portfolio. invaluable for actually getting a job after

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suralin
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by suralin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:17 am

i am officially re-entering the CS job market and running the gauntlet of interview prep again. liveblogging just in case there's any interest

as of last friday i applied to or replied to recruiters from google, netflix, dropbox, airbnb, opendoor, lyft, uber, flexport, snapchat, stripe, pinterest, affirm, yelp, twitch, stitch fix, and etsy. the goal here is to hit up the obvious candidates as well as breakoutlist.com mainstays—all for onsite practice and offer negotiation leverage later.

rn i have phone coding interviews / technical screens lined up with amazon, dropbox, opendoor, snapchat, pinterest, and stitch fix.

google decided to fast-track me to an onsite (basically the final set of interviews, like a callback except much more hellish so i've heard); i have it scheduled for sept 19th.

i plan on putting in about 100 hours of prep over the next 5 weeks (while obviously still working fulltime @ fb). i'm mainly using leetcode, elements of programming interviews, and interview cake. all of these interviews are for software engineer (most at least ML-adjacent) roles.

i'm aiming for a total comp package from $260-300k

feel free to ask q's abt this process etc!

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beep
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by beep » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:39 am

suralin wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:09 am
beep wrote:
Thu Jul 05, 2018 6:57 pm
suralin wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:33 am
Sura and others,

Anyone know anything about UI/UX bootcamps? Teh gf is looking to go this route and has been doing a lot of research, but not really finding conclusive answers on what would be the best. Some leaning toward General Assembly (which seems correct based on my [very short] research). My uneducated advice just after reading this thread and the links in it is (a) spend a ton of time before the bootcamp getting really good, and (b) to look for the best one that will provide some signaling/credentialist boost plus set her up the best for networking. But I don't actually have any idea about which that might be. Any ideas?
sorry just saw this, but i really have no idea about those bootcamps. the only advice i'd have would be things y'all are already doing / aware of like lots of research and getting good pre-bootcamp

e: oh maybe make sure the bootcamp has a focus on project-based learning and building a portfolio. invaluable for actually getting a job after
Thanks Sura - no worries. It does appear to be project-based to some degree and promises to build portfolios, though we'll see to what degree either of those end up being true (and to what degree any portfolio doesn't obviously read as a bootcamp portfolio). She's registered and starting in about a month - will report back for any others interested in going this direction, though I assume the coding side of things is probably more popular on this bort.

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wizzy
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by wizzy » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:18 pm

Good luck man; that's an awesome TC target

Let us know how everything goes (and yes, what you're going through with onsites is obvi much more hellish than law firm callbacks with softball questions like what's your favorite color)

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suralin
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by suralin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:13 am

short update:

rejected from: stripe and dropbox

onsites w: google, snapchat, twitter, pinterest, opendoor, and stitch fix [and technically fb internal loop]

still in the pre-onsite process w: waymo, nuro.ai, and linkedin

i'm overall behind on my studying and wasn't prepared enough for my first several technical phone interviews (eg stripe/dropbox), but after putting away ~50 leetcode problems in the last week and getting a few onsites in a row, am feeling much better about things

i've decided that for coding, non-leetcode sources are a waste of time—it's all about pattern recognition and 'muscle memory'. for system design i'm using https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer. for distributed systems http://book.mixu.net/distsys/single-page.html.

i'm aiming for 125 hours of studying and 125 problems. keeping myself on trend with aggressive beeminder goals for each https://www.beeminder.com/suryc11/cs_studying_longterm (it's a commitment device where i basically pay them money if i go off track)

the next week i'll be focusing on doing LC mediums/hards; reviewing ML, stats, and sys design / distributed systems stuff; and whiteboarding problems (there's a big difference between coding on a computer and writing out code on a whiteboard while verbalizing your thought process)

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suralin
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by suralin » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:43 am

i've mentioned blind on here before, but it's more or less tls/lsl for sv tech—sometimes toxic but good for breaking down information asymmetries. i've been collecting some posts if anyone is interested in the inside baseball

company compensation tiers (blind also loves ranking shit):
https://www.teamblind.com/article/compe ... s-Gn5NqzP0

total comp offer numbers (glassdoor is off):
v good offers from a good interviewer (2 yrs of exp): https://www.teamblind.com/article/shari ... e-yNgqUPQR
collation for FANG+: https://www.teamblind.com/article/stop- ... e-sN8uYpop
google (from their internal spreadsheet): https://www.teamblind.com/article/googl ... t-jYcrij5X

interview prep strategy:
https://www.teamblind.com/article/shari ... c-MFNMdaOU

path to >500k:
https://www.teamblind.com/article/journ ... y-XuGfTTvH

AMA from 43 y/o retiree:
https://www.teamblind.com/article/i-fir ... a-jNKKtXVa

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wizzy
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by wizzy » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:40 pm

Blind is addicting

"Just leetcode bro" and "TC or gtfo" >>> retake, ED UVA

Good luck man, hope onsites are going well

guest

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by guest » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:09 pm

Guest wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 1:52 pm
app wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:40 am
Kodokushiest wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:21 pm
FuzzyDunlop wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:58 am
Guest wrote:
Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:49 am
I think prestigious is Rhodes Scholar, PhD, some truly wxceptional softs. I don’t think working at a big tech company is really considered prestigious.
Yeah, aside from big tech company's amazing perks, great lifestyle, and large salaries (with total comp of seniors exceeding big law attorneys many times), and a "wtf is this dude applying to law school for?" reaction from the admissions department, it probably won't make a difference.

Most people have no clue how hard Facebook or Google is to get in as an engineer, how much their stock perks are worth, or how prestigious they are outside of the Bay Area. Most people outside of SV think software engineers don't make a lot of money and it's a dime a dozen job.
I really don't think this is true.
i thought it was the opposite that non-SV people think of FB/Goog as unicorns where only geniuses work. we know that Mck/Bain/BCG name makes difference in HLS. so why not goog/fb?
they're similar for bschools where goog/fb/apple name in tech or Mck/Bain/BCG name in consulting does make a big difference when applying to schools like HBS.
To bring up an old thread, B-school apps are a different animal entirely than law school apps. B-school more or less requires work experience, and from what I understand, it's the most important part of the application such that high numbers can't really make up for shoddy work experience.

Law school applications happily take K-JDs and care nearly exclusively about numbers that keep their medians high. I don't think any work experience will move the needle that much. I did notice people with similar numbers and good work experience getting scholarships, though.
I don't think any work experience will move the needle that much.
Yes, B school apps are different. But work ex at MBB does move the needle for top law schools. The facebook/google post question seems to be about why those jobs don't help with LS admissions when MBB does.

guest

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by guest » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:14 pm

suralin wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:17 am
i am officially re-entering the CS job market and running the gauntlet of interview prep again. liveblogging just in case there's any interest

as of last friday i applied to or replied to recruiters from google, netflix, dropbox, airbnb, opendoor, lyft, uber, flexport, snapchat, stripe, pinterest, affirm, yelp, twitch, stitch fix, and etsy. the goal here is to hit up the obvious candidates as well as breakoutlist.com mainstays—all for onsite practice and offer negotiation leverage later.

rn i have phone coding interviews / technical screens lined up with amazon, dropbox, opendoor, snapchat, pinterest, and stitch fix.

google decided to fast-track me to an onsite (basically the final set of interviews, like a callback except much more hellish so i've heard); i have it scheduled for sept 19th.

i plan on putting in about 100 hours of prep over the next 5 weeks (while obviously still working fulltime @ fb). i'm mainly using leetcode, elements of programming interviews, and interview cake. all of these interviews are for software engineer (most at least ML-adjacent) roles.

i'm aiming for a total comp package from $260-300k

feel free to ask q's abt this process etc!
at FB in SF area, wouldn't TC be already ~ or > 250k? E3 or E4?

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suralin
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by suralin » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:35 pm

if you don't count stock appreciation (which you shouldn't), FB SWE TC roughly tracks the google medians:

e3 (new grad up to several yrs at non-peer companies): 185-215k
e4 (phd grads or 3+ peer YOE): 245-275k
e5 (idk u know your shit; 5-10+ YOE is not uncommon): 310-400k+

but i technically am a data engineer and we—along w data scientists—"only" receive approximately 70% of SWE equity (PMs and product designers get a bit less, then UX researchers and content strategists, etc.)

my TC is ~230k. i came in as a lvl 3* DE last summer and got a first half promo to e4 and two greatly exceeds [expectations] ratings (~10th percentile). which is all to say, i currently make nontrivially more than the equivalent median DE but not guaranteed to continue

so am interviewing to correct the $$ disparity and bc i don't feel like i'm learning as much as i could rn; part of the reason for my high perf ratings was bc i did a lot of impactful SWE ML work, so it's a bit annoying that i'm not quite paid accordingly and it's also not indefinitely scalable as i level up

i could and am also interviewing internally to role transfer but i probably wouldn't get a new initial grant** (which is the bulk of TC and >> refreshers), so the best path comp-wise is to leave and come back

*fb and google are relatively conservative w leveling to avoid peter principle, fb less so for promotions but still meant to be a lagging indicator, ie you should be performing at the next lvl for at least a half beforehand

**fb refuses to do counteroffers bc in the past when that wasn't the policy, ppl would go interview at google just to get a higher non-formulaic TC at fb

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suralin
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by suralin » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:43 pm

wizzy wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:40 pm
Blind is addicting

"Just leetcode bro" and "TC or gtfo" >>> retake, ED UVA

Good luck man, hope onsites are going well
appreciate it man, i'll def update the thread afterward. looking forward to a bidding war (hopefully)

guest

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by guest » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:55 pm

suralin wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:13 am
short update:

rejected from: stripe and dropbox

onsites w: google, snapchat, twitter, pinterest, opendoor, and stitch fix [and technically fb internal loop]

still in the pre-onsite process w: waymo, nuro.ai, and linkedin

i'm overall behind on my studying and wasn't prepared enough for my first several technical phone interviews (eg stripe/dropbox), but after putting away ~50 leetcode problems in the last week and getting a few onsites in a row, am feeling much better about things

i've decided that for coding, non-leetcode sources are a waste of time—it's all about pattern recognition and 'muscle memory'. for system design i'm using https://github.com/donnemartin/system-design-primer. for distributed systems http://book.mixu.net/distsys/single-page.html.

i'm aiming for 125 hours of studying and 125 problems. keeping myself on trend with aggressive beeminder goals for each https://www.beeminder.com/suryc11/cs_studying_longterm (it's a commitment device where i basically pay them money if i go off track)

the next week i'll be focusing on doing LC mediums/hards; reviewing ML, stats, and sys design / distributed systems stuff; and whiteboarding problems (there's a big difference between coding on a computer and writing out code on a whiteboard while verbalizing your thought process)
this is great. how much of the 50 LC problems are medium and hards?

i have used the listed github sys design primer, but i feel sys design interview is very subjective and unpredictable even after it's done.

guest

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by guest » Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:35 pm

suralin wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:43 am
i've mentioned blind on here before, but it's more or less tls/lsl for sv tech—sometimes toxic but good for breaking down information asymmetries. i've been collecting some posts if anyone is interested in the inside baseball

company compensation tiers (blind also loves ranking shit):
https://www.teamblind.com/article/compe ... s-Gn5NqzP0

total comp offer numbers (glassdoor is off):
v good offers from a good interviewer (2 yrs of exp): https://www.teamblind.com/article/shari ... e-yNgqUPQR
collation for FANG+: https://www.teamblind.com/article/stop- ... e-sN8uYpop
google (from their internal spreadsheet): https://www.teamblind.com/article/googl ... t-jYcrij5X

interview prep strategy:
https://www.teamblind.com/article/shari ... c-MFNMdaOU

path to >500k:
https://www.teamblind.com/article/journ ... y-XuGfTTvH

AMA from 43 y/o retiree:
https://www.teamblind.com/article/i-fir ... a-jNKKtXVa
that's a big difference in TC at FANG and the generic companies.

went through the interview process and LC in the last couple of months. got offered in ML at one of the legacy companies with an okay tc so may be can use it to get ml at fang next year.

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suralin
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by suralin » Mon Sep 10, 2018 11:17 pm

guest wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:55 pm
this is great. how much of the 50 LC problems are medium and hards?

i have used the listed github sys design primer, but i feel sys design interview is very subjective and unpredictable even after it's done.
about 20 were medium, v few hard. i generally feel like hards are a waste of time in terms of EV so i just skim the discussion for those / look up explanations. but airbnb gave me a LC hard in a phone interview so uh. it was palindrome pairs; i did ok bc i had seen it before but not good enough apparently

yeah it's subjective but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. gives you a lot of room to dive deep on a specific design decision or tradeoff area. eg i enjoy talking about the CAP theorem
guest wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:35 pm
that's a big difference in TC at FANG and the generic companies.

went through the interview process and LC in the last couple of months. got offered in ML at one of the legacy companies with an okay tc so may be can use it to get ml at fang next year.
what do you mean by legacy company? would take the offer regardless tho (unless your opportunity cost is high), can always shoot for FANG later

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wizzy
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by wizzy » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:50 am

I'm guessing IBM, Oracle, HP, Dell/EMC, etc?

And that's really good insight into SWE vs. DE. I knew a little bit about the PM and UX distinction as compared to SWEs from blind but had no idea about the SWE/DE split. Interviewing for TC bidding war purposes makes a ton of sense.

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wizzy
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Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by wizzy » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:53 am

What's the reasoning behind the SWE vs. DE comp like that from a company perspective? I would think that data engineers and data scientists add similar value as software engineers do.

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suralin
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Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 11:36 am

Re: CS career megathread / AMA

Post by suralin » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:10 am

wizzy wrote:
Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:53 am
What's the reasoning behind the SWE vs. DE comp like that from a company perspective? I would think that data engineers and data scientists add similar value as software engineers do.
good q, i'm (obviously) biased but i agree, especially at a company as data-forward as fb. it's also annoying bc both DEs and DSes are highly leveraged—it's not uncommon to have 5-10 SWEs and 2 PMs to 1 DS & 1 DE. also not uncommon for many DSes to have phds compared to new grad SWEs. i didn't know about the discrepancy coming in; it's a bit of a stats thing where the avg DE/DS pay industry-wide easily rivals the avg SWE pay, but this is mostly due to only high-paying companies having explicit data roles at all, and at those companies specifically, SWEs get paid even more

i think there are two primary intertwined causes. the first is that data roles are still super new and there's no standardized definition. eg, among DSes you get everything from (good) data analysts to phd research data scientists; at fb, i have personally worked with DSes who can't code and mainly use excel and tableau, as well as DSes who have phds in literal quantum physics or who used to be econ professors at preftigious schools (this isn't as weird as it might seem actually, all that matters is impact, nobody cares how fancy your techniques are). similarly DE encompasses all of: ex-DBAs who don't have CS degrees and deal with traditional non-tech business intelligence / data warehousing things and mainly do SQL, SWEs on data infra building real-time distributed systems #bigdata, DSes who like data munging more than analyses, ML people doing feature engineering etc.

partly bc of that, you get this weird thing where DEs are supposedly super in demand, but the market forces haven't caught up. or at least that's the rationale we've gotten internally. i think it'll probably change sooner or later; a lot of people are transferring and i plan on helping the CAUSE by being v explicit about it in my exit interview if i leave. but i'm not super interested in waiting around (even tho there's def a draw in being part of the cohort who will help define what a new role looks like and tho i do really enjoy that data @ FB gets way more product insight / leadership context due to the leverage and data focus)

e: in fairness i do want to say that it's probably "easier" to be a median DE than a median SWE at a big tech company, at least as far as the raw ~intelligence~ for the interviews. CS theory at that lvl is likely just harder to grok than SQL + less intense CS theory + some systems things you can memorize or bs [i do strongly believe that SWE interviewing is a winnable game, but that might be more of a self-motivating belief than something that's a true map of the territory]

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