More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post Reply
flyer123
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 31, 2019 11:03 pm

More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by flyer123 » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:33 am

My career officer told me to remove many of the things on my resume to fit in 1 page and have spacing inside it. Is it worth it? I could squeeze it all on 1 page. I am K-JD so I have no real work or internship experience etc but now my resume is now almost all my stuff are post law school stuff. WIll law firms get suspicious why your resume only has like post-law school stuff (beyond your education section and one leadership position in undergrad)? everything else is my current summer corporate law internship and three law school activities. True working side jobs etc arn't relevnt to law anyways or as much working in legal clinics. BUT I can squeeze everything in if I wanted the content
I mean if recruiters read everything anyways as its their job then dont i gain more from adding more in?
I am K-JD rising to 2L for NYC Big Law

User avatar
blueapple
Moderator
Posts: 1605
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by blueapple » Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:46 am

If they're telling you to remove some stuff, it's probably too cramped. I remember how hard it was to remove stuff from my resume, but you don't want it too be squeezed and cluttered. You don't need to remove everything they're suggesting you remove, but try to consider why you feel like it needs to be on there. They don't need your life history -- just relevant info. You want all of your summers accounted for after you started college so that employers don't wonder about time gaps, but you don't need to provide too much detail about that stuff unless it's particularly relevant.

Feel free to PM me if you want me to take a look at it or to discuss anything specific. T14 grad/federal attorney who is good at resumes.

lolwat
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:06 am

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by lolwat » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:24 pm

I see no problem with a resume that just has activities related to law school and post law school.

I'm weird and will completely defer to blueapple. :D But personally for me, I don't care what you did in college. I don't care all that much if you worked summers (more impressive if you worked full-time to put yourself through college) and I really don't care if you did some super privileged stuff that 99% of kids don't get to do because they don't have the money. What I care about is the type of stuff you're doing in law school.

User avatar
blueapple
Moderator
Posts: 1605
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by blueapple » Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:41 pm

lolwat wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:24 pm
I see no problem with a resume that just has activities related to law school and post law school.

I'm weird and will completely defer to blueapple. :D But personally for me, I don't care what you did in college. I don't care all that much if you worked summers (more impressive if you worked full-time to put yourself through college) and I really don't care if you did some super privileged stuff that 99% of kids don't get to do because they don't have the money. What I care about is the type of stuff you're doing in law school.
totally agree re your first point - my resume now i think is entirely law school and post law school i think. but it wasn't before i graduated from law school and practiced for a bit (and OP is still in law school)

and re: your second point.. i apologize if i didn't convey what i meant well enough or maybe you're not responding to what i said and i'm being sensitive. all i meant was that some employers want to see that you filled your time each semester/season/whatever during college (and law school). example: i took a restaurant job from between college and law school off my resume (at the advice of the career office so that i could fit everything on one page) and then had employers asking me what i did during that gap. so i put it back on. it's off now because if i were interviewing for something now, employers would assume whatever i did there isn't relevant to my legal career. but when you're in law school applying for stuff, you don't have a legal career. so they want to see that you weren't just sitting at home eating cheetos or whatever

User avatar
Nony
Posts: 5312
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by Nony » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:31 pm

lolwat wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:24 pm
I see no problem with a resume that just has activities related to law school and post law school.

I'm weird and will completely defer to blueapple. :D But personally for me, I don't care what you did in college. I don't care all that much if you worked summers (more impressive if you worked full-time to put yourself through college) and I really don't care if you did some super privileged stuff that 99% of kids don't get to do because they don't have the money. What I care about is the type of stuff you're doing in law school.
I think that’s fair, but I think a lot of employers aren’t going to think of it that way.

lolwat
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:06 am

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by lolwat » Tue Jun 04, 2019 1:55 pm

blueapple wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:41 pm
lolwat wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 12:24 pm
I see no problem with a resume that just has activities related to law school and post law school.

I'm weird and will completely defer to blueapple. :D But personally for me, I don't care what you did in college. I don't care all that much if you worked summers (more impressive if you worked full-time to put yourself through college) and I really don't care if you did some super privileged stuff that 99% of kids don't get to do because they don't have the money. What I care about is the type of stuff you're doing in law school.
totally agree re your first point - my resume now i think is entirely law school and post law school i think. but it wasn't before i graduated from law school and practiced for a bit (and OP is still in law school)

and re: your second point.. i apologize if i didn't convey what i meant well enough or maybe you're not responding to what i said and i'm being sensitive. all i meant was that some employers want to see that you filled your time each semester/season/whatever during college (and law school). example: i took a restaurant job from between college and law school off my resume (at the advice of the career office so that i could fit everything on one page) and then had employers asking me what i did during that gap. so i put it back on. it's off now because if i were interviewing for something now, employers would assume whatever i did there isn't relevant to my legal career. but when you're in law school applying for stuff, you don't have a legal career. so they want to see that you weren't just sitting at home eating cheetos or whatever
I wasn't responding to you, and I mentioned deferring to you because you have a ton more experience than I do with this kind of stuff, no sarcasm or other negativity intended. Nony's comment is pretty much the reason I try to preface or explain my advice with something like I did ("will defer to (someone with more knowledge)" or "personally," etc.) when I realize it's probably something unique to me and possibly not applicable to (m)any others.

economist123
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:48 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by economist123 » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:07 am

blueapple wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:46 am
If they're telling you to remove some stuff, it's probably too cramped. I remember how hard it was to remove stuff from my resume, but you don't want it too be squeezed and cluttered. You don't need to remove everything they're suggesting you remove, but try to consider why you feel like it needs to be on there. They don't need your life history -- just relevant info. You want all of your summers accounted for after you started college so that employers don't wonder about time gaps, but you don't need to provide too much detail about that stuff unless it's particularly relevant.

Feel free to PM me if you want me to take a look at it or to discuss anything specific. T14 grad/federal attorney who is good at resumes.
Just curious, for K-JDs that have no real job, would you rather as a federal attorney be more interested in having more bullets in related law school activties like speaker coordinator for a law society, pro bono work etc or would you rather have non legal summer jobs from undergrad? what if your undergrad job in summer was unpaid volunteer at the university to assist in research and/or no other fancy internships like at a bank? I am currently interning at a major law firm though in big law

User avatar
blueapple
Moderator
Posts: 1605
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by blueapple » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:48 pm

economist123 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:07 am
blueapple wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:46 am
If they're telling you to remove some stuff, it's probably too cramped. I remember how hard it was to remove stuff from my resume, but you don't want it too be squeezed and cluttered. You don't need to remove everything they're suggesting you remove, but try to consider why you feel like it needs to be on there. They don't need your life history -- just relevant info. You want all of your summers accounted for after you started college so that employers don't wonder about time gaps, but you don't need to provide too much detail about that stuff unless it's particularly relevant.

Feel free to PM me if you want me to take a look at it or to discuss anything specific. T14 grad/federal attorney who is good at resumes.
Just curious, for K-JDs that have no real job, would you rather as a federal attorney be more interested in having more bullets in related law school activties like speaker coordinator for a law society, pro bono work etc or would you rather have non legal summer jobs from undergrad? what if your undergrad job in summer was unpaid volunteer at the university to assist in research and/or no other fancy internships like at a bank? I am currently interning at a major law firm though in big law
Personally, I think you should include all law school activities that you could talk about if asked about it in an interview, but you don't need to elaborate on the resume. I definitely want to know about your undergrad stuff. Nobody I know cares about whether you had a fancy internship, so don't get in your head about that if you're worried it doesn't look impressive enough.

User avatar
Nony
Posts: 5312
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by Nony » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:40 pm

(If I can nitpick just a bit, if you’re in law school now, you’re not really interning at a law firm; you’re working at one.)

economist123
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:48 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by economist123 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:52 am

Nony wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:40 pm
(If I can nitpick just a bit, if you’re in law school now, you’re not really interning at a law firm; you’re working at one.)
I don't get the difference to be honest. My resume calls it an intern and that is my official title at the firm. What did you mean by working? EDIT:Not sure whom you addressed it too

economist123
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:48 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by economist123 » Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:56 am

blueapple wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:48 pm
economist123 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:07 am
blueapple wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:46 am
If they're telling you to remove some stuff, it's probably too cramped. I remember how hard it was to remove stuff from my resume, but you don't want it too be squeezed and cluttered. You don't need to remove everything they're suggesting you remove, but try to consider why you feel like it needs to be on there. They don't need your life history -- just relevant info. You want all of your summers accounted for after you started college so that employers don't wonder about time gaps, but you don't need to provide too much detail about that stuff unless it's particularly relevant.

Feel free to PM me if you want me to take a look at it or to discuss anything specific. T14 grad/federal attorney who is good at resumes.
Just curious, for K-JDs that have no real job, would you rather as a federal attorney be more interested in having more bullets in related law school activties like speaker coordinator for a law society, pro bono work etc or would you rather have non legal summer jobs from undergrad? what if your undergrad job in summer was unpaid volunteer at the university to assist in research and/or no other fancy internships like at a bank? I am currently interning at a major law firm though in big law
Personally, I think you should include all law school activities that you could talk about if asked about it in an interview, but you don't need to elaborate on the resume. I definitely want to know about your undergrad stuff. Nobody I know cares about whether you had a fancy internship, so don't get in your head about that if you're worried it doesn't look impressive enough.

By not eleborating do you mean having it in my education section under my law school as an activity and my title in it and not devote a position as a "job" on my resume? Currently since I am K-JD without much experience beyond my current summer big law internship, I have a whole section titled something like "College and Law School Activities" that includes some of my past club positions like President of XXX as if it was a job (i.e., I devoted bullet points to it). Would you be fine with students for some activties devoing a few bullets to it? I honestly cant fill in 1 page without doing this
//
By "definitely want to know about your undergrad stuff" do you mean you do want us beyond listing our school year activity to also list all 4 of our undergrad summers what we did? I studied the LSAT all summer once so I cant really list it and another summer my RA position got cancelled last minute

User avatar
DOT
Posts: 8959
Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:26 am

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by DOT » Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:03 pm

Some people go insane once they're put into an office setting for the first time. Put some stuff down that suggests that this will not happen to you

User avatar
Nony
Posts: 5312
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 2:34 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by Nony » Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:47 pm

economist123 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:52 am
Nony wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:40 pm
(If I can nitpick just a bit, if you’re in law school now, you’re not really interning at a law firm; you’re working at one.)
I don't get the difference to be honest. My resume calls it an intern and that is my official title at the firm. What did you mean by working? EDIT:Not sure whom you addressed it too
Okay, so that’s pretty unusual. Usually you are a summer associate or law clerk. If you’re doing work for the firm and getting paid you’re generally not an intern, it’s simply a summer job. If you’re hired through some sort of academic program where you’re getting school credit, then you could be an intern. It’s just not very common to do that with big law firms (in part because of various Dept of Labor regulations requiring it to be an educational experience for you rather than of economic benefit to them).

User avatar
blueapple
Moderator
Posts: 1605
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by blueapple » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:55 pm

economist123 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:56 am
blueapple wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:48 pm
economist123 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:07 am
blueapple wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:46 am
If they're telling you to remove some stuff, it's probably too cramped. I remember how hard it was to remove stuff from my resume, but you don't want it too be squeezed and cluttered. You don't need to remove everything they're suggesting you remove, but try to consider why you feel like it needs to be on there. They don't need your life history -- just relevant info. You want all of your summers accounted for after you started college so that employers don't wonder about time gaps, but you don't need to provide too much detail about that stuff unless it's particularly relevant.

Feel free to PM me if you want me to take a look at it or to discuss anything specific. T14 grad/federal attorney who is good at resumes.
Just curious, for K-JDs that have no real job, would you rather as a federal attorney be more interested in having more bullets in related law school activties like speaker coordinator for a law society, pro bono work etc or would you rather have non legal summer jobs from undergrad? what if your undergrad job in summer was unpaid volunteer at the university to assist in research and/or no other fancy internships like at a bank? I am currently interning at a major law firm though in big law
Personally, I think you should include all law school activities that you could talk about if asked about it in an interview, but you don't need to elaborate on the resume. I definitely want to know about your undergrad stuff. Nobody I know cares about whether you had a fancy internship, so don't get in your head about that if you're worried it doesn't look impressive enough.

By not eleborating do you mean having it in my education section under my law school as an activity and my title in it and not devote a position as a "job" on my resume? Currently since I am K-JD without much experience beyond my current summer big law internship, I have a whole section titled something like "College and Law School Activities" that includes some of my past club positions like President of XXX as if it was a job (i.e., I devoted bullet points to it). Would you be fine with students for some activties devoing a few bullets to it? I honestly cant fill in 1 page without doing this
//
By "definitely want to know about your undergrad stuff" do you mean you do want us beyond listing our school year activity to also list all 4 of our undergrad summers what we did? I studied the LSAT all summer once so I cant really list it and another summer my RA position got cancelled last minute
I would do what you've already done and essentially have a section for "activities" within your education section (you can remove the "college and law school" part of the heading) and a section for "work experience" where you can include any of your work/internship experience. you can include any clinic or research assistant stuff there. I probably would put pro bono stuff within activities unless you were closely supervised and got a lot of feedback and were doing it fairly frequently. And you DO have work experience beyond your current summer big law gig (unless your undergrad unpaid volunteer comment was purely hypothetical).

economist123
Posts: 82
Joined: Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:48 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by economist123 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:10 pm

blueapple wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:55 pm
economist123 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:56 am
blueapple wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:48 pm
economist123 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:07 am
blueapple wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:46 am
If they're telling you to remove some stuff, it's probably too cramped. I remember how hard it was to remove stuff from my resume, but you don't want it too be squeezed and cluttered. You don't need to remove everything they're suggesting you remove, but try to consider why you feel like it needs to be on there. They don't need your life history -- just relevant info. You want all of your summers accounted for after you started college so that employers don't wonder about time gaps, but you don't need to provide too much detail about that stuff unless it's particularly relevant.

Feel free to PM me if you want me to take a look at it or to discuss anything specific. T14 grad/federal attorney who is good at resumes.
Just curious, for K-JDs that have no real job, would you rather as a federal attorney be more interested in having more bullets in related law school activties like speaker coordinator for a law society, pro bono work etc or would you rather have non legal summer jobs from undergrad? what if your undergrad job in summer was unpaid volunteer at the university to assist in research and/or no other fancy internships like at a bank? I am currently interning at a major law firm though in big law
Personally, I think you should include all law school activities that you could talk about if asked about it in an interview, but you don't need to elaborate on the resume. I definitely want to know about your undergrad stuff. Nobody I know cares about whether you had a fancy internship, so don't get in your head about that if you're worried it doesn't look impressive enough.

By not eleborating do you mean having it in my education section under my law school as an activity and my title in it and not devote a position as a "job" on my resume? Currently since I am K-JD without much experience beyond my current summer big law internship, I have a whole section titled something like "College and Law School Activities" that includes some of my past club positions like President of XXX as if it was a job (i.e., I devoted bullet points to it). Would you be fine with students for some activties devoing a few bullets to it? I honestly cant fill in 1 page without doing this
//
By "definitely want to know about your undergrad stuff" do you mean you do want us beyond listing our school year activity to also list all 4 of our undergrad summers what we did? I studied the LSAT all summer once so I cant really list it and another summer my RA position got cancelled last minute
I would do what you've already done and essentially have a section for "activities" within your education section (you can remove the "college and law school" part of the heading) and a section for "work experience" where you can include any of your work/internship experience. you can include any clinic or research assistant stuff there. I probably would put pro bono stuff within activities unless you were closely supervised and got a lot of feedback and were doing it fairly frequently. And you DO have work experience beyond your current summer big law gig (unless your undergrad unpaid volunteer comment was purely hypothetical).
By putting activties under Education wouldnt that mean less details for what I did? I actaully have no work experience that is enough to fill up the rest of my resume. Does it hurt to still have a seperate Activities section or am I just wasting people's time by having a seperate section on it.
To clarify when you said I do have work experience are you saying unpaid volunteer undergrad position at the university counts as work experience even though its a volunteer title because it was unpaid?

User avatar
blueapple
Moderator
Posts: 1605
Joined: Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:51 pm

Re: More spacing or more content for K-JD resume?

Post by blueapple » Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:15 pm

economist123 wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:10 pm
blueapple wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:55 pm
economist123 wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:56 am
blueapple wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:48 pm
economist123 wrote:
Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:07 am
blueapple wrote:
Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:46 am
If they're telling you to remove some stuff, it's probably too cramped. I remember how hard it was to remove stuff from my resume, but you don't want it too be squeezed and cluttered. You don't need to remove everything they're suggesting you remove, but try to consider why you feel like it needs to be on there. They don't need your life history -- just relevant info. You want all of your summers accounted for after you started college so that employers don't wonder about time gaps, but you don't need to provide too much detail about that stuff unless it's particularly relevant.

Feel free to PM me if you want me to take a look at it or to discuss anything specific. T14 grad/federal attorney who is good at resumes.
Just curious, for K-JDs that have no real job, would you rather as a federal attorney be more interested in having more bullets in related law school activties like speaker coordinator for a law society, pro bono work etc or would you rather have non legal summer jobs from undergrad? what if your undergrad job in summer was unpaid volunteer at the university to assist in research and/or no other fancy internships like at a bank? I am currently interning at a major law firm though in big law
Personally, I think you should include all law school activities that you could talk about if asked about it in an interview, but you don't need to elaborate on the resume. I definitely want to know about your undergrad stuff. Nobody I know cares about whether you had a fancy internship, so don't get in your head about that if you're worried it doesn't look impressive enough.

By not eleborating do you mean having it in my education section under my law school as an activity and my title in it and not devote a position as a "job" on my resume? Currently since I am K-JD without much experience beyond my current summer big law internship, I have a whole section titled something like "College and Law School Activities" that includes some of my past club positions like President of XXX as if it was a job (i.e., I devoted bullet points to it). Would you be fine with students for some activties devoing a few bullets to it? I honestly cant fill in 1 page without doing this
//
By "definitely want to know about your undergrad stuff" do you mean you do want us beyond listing our school year activity to also list all 4 of our undergrad summers what we did? I studied the LSAT all summer once so I cant really list it and another summer my RA position got cancelled last minute
I would do what you've already done and essentially have a section for "activities" within your education section (you can remove the "college and law school" part of the heading) and a section for "work experience" where you can include any of your work/internship experience. you can include any clinic or research assistant stuff there. I probably would put pro bono stuff within activities unless you were closely supervised and got a lot of feedback and were doing it fairly frequently. And you DO have work experience beyond your current summer big law gig (unless your undergrad unpaid volunteer comment was purely hypothetical).
By putting activties under Education wouldnt that mean less details for what I did? I actaully have no work experience that is enough to fill up the rest of my resume. Does it hurt to still have a seperate Activities section or am I just wasting people's time by having a seperate section on it.
To clarify when you said I do have work experience are you saying unpaid volunteer undergrad position at the university counts as work experience even though its a volunteer title because it was unpaid?
do you want to just message me a copy of your resume so i can show you how i would rework it? you can change/redact any personal info if you want to. sending a dropbox link through PM is probably easiest if you do want to.

basically what i am saying is it looks weird to put non-work activities under work experience. and it looks weird to have 3 bullet points explaining something that only needs one (or none). it's better to have less information in a digestible format that is familiar and normal to people who review resumes.

and yes, whether you're paid doesn't matter in terms of counting something as work experience for your resume. did it function like a job or internship? then it's work experience. (note: this might change as you get more experience! in undergrad, i worked at the library and also did research for a professor. research was unpaid. both went under my work experience. as i gained other work experience after college and during law school, the new jobs/internships were more important and relevant and so i cut my library job and research positions from my "experience" section and just put a bullet point for each under "activities".)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 4 guests