Suggestions for Writing Sample

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economist123
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Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by economist123 »

Hey all,
I have contradictory advice right now so hoping the community can chime in

I was previously told a writing sample can be anything including from undergrad by two different lawyers from the same firm. I decided an udnergrad paper that won an award and it won't require making cuts. One of them said the firm cares a lot about writing and you better choose the best one.

My career counsellor said to send in law school papers because that's what attorneys do daily and not the type of writing you do in undergrad.

I don't want to ask the firm directly and I am not sure if there is a firm rule
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Nony
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Re: Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by Nony »

I would absolutely not use a writing sample from undergrad - use something from law school. The lawyers who told you undergrad stuff is okay won't have any problem with law school samples, whereas someone who wants to see a law school sample will be put off by an undergrad sample. (My impression is that writing samples for OCI aren't actually that important, but still.)
economist123
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Re: Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by economist123 »

Nony wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 8:27 pm I would absolutely not use a writing sample from undergrad - use something from law school. The lawyers who told you undergrad stuff is okay won't have any problem with law school samples, whereas someone who wants to see a law school sample will be put off by an undergrad sample. (My impression is that writing samples for OCI aren't actually that important, but still.)
Thanks! An issue I have for law school writing is that the memo (with all the headings etc) I wrote was on a pretty silly subject. On the other hand, I have papers from Property/Land law but they are not writing like an actual memo but just an essay with mentions of cases. Do you think the latter falls within the realm of Law School Sample or are they thinking more of those memos?

btw, we have to submit our sampel in advance but I noticed the ad also says bring it with you to the OCI interview (along with some other stuff like transcript). Do they read it on the spot at the interview sometimes and ask you questions on it?
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Nony
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Re: Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by Nony »

I don't think the topic much matters; pick whichever is best written, meaning your argument is good and your writing is clean and clear. I think if all else is equal, practice-type documents (i.e. the memo) are generally preferable to academic-style documents (essays), but whichever is better is the one you should go with. Usually memo topics are assigned by the prof so employers aren't going to hold the choice of topic against you.

I don't think it's common for them to read your writing sample on the spot - if you run into an interviewer who cares/has time, they'll read it ahead of time (lots of interviewers won't have time so won't do that). They may well ask you about it, though, whether they've read it or not, so you should be prepared to answer questions (not sure that asking about the sample at OCI is really at all common, but anything you submit is fair game for interview questions). Hypothetically someone might ask you for a copy and read it then and there, but I think that's very very unlikely. It's just good practice to have copies of all your materials with you in case the interviewer misplaces something.
CS1775
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Re: Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by CS1775 »

Re: the topic of the sample, I've actually gotten positive comments about amusing or "silly" topics. Granted, I apply to public defenders and judges with senses of humor, but readers want a clear, well-written writing sample. The cover letter should explain if it was a real case, a legal practice class prompt, etc.

All of my interviewers read writing samples in advance. I can't imagine why an interviewer would read it on the spot and not in advance because the writing sample is a crucial part of the interview. If someone simply can't write, you're not going to give them the facetime of an interview.

And yes, absolutely do not use an undergrad legal writing sample. Use something from law school or a law school legal "internship."
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Nebby
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Re: Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by Nebby »

Do not use undergrad writing sample.
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Nony
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Re: Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by Nony »

CS1775 wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:56 am I can't imagine why an interviewer would read it on the spot and not in advance because the writing sample is a crucial part of the interview. If someone simply can't write, you're not going to give them the facetime of an interview.
I don't think this is necessarily true for OCI/big firms. They're interviewing so many people in a compressed period, I don't think most OCI interviewers read the writing samples. You have to be prepared for the ones that do, but the writing sample is unlikely to be make or break as it is for, say, interviews with judges.
CS1775
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Re: Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by CS1775 »

Nony wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:16 am
CS1775 wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:56 am I can't imagine why an interviewer would read it on the spot and not in advance because the writing sample is a crucial part of the interview. If someone simply can't write, you're not going to give them the facetime of an interview.
I don't think this is necessarily true for OCI/big firms. They're interviewing so many people in a compressed period, I don't think most OCI interviewers read the writing samples. You have to be prepared for the ones that do, but the writing sample is unlikely to be make or break as it is for, say, interviews with judges.
You probably know better than me. I had OCI for my current summer public defender position, which required a writing sample, and the writing sample never came up in the interview presumably because I'll be standing up in misdemeanor court and not writing appellate briefs.
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Nebby
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Re: Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by Nebby »

CS1775 wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:19 am
Nony wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2019 7:16 am
CS1775 wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:56 am I can't imagine why an interviewer would read it on the spot and not in advance because the writing sample is a crucial part of the interview. If someone simply can't write, you're not going to give them the facetime of an interview.
I don't think this is necessarily true for OCI/big firms. They're interviewing so many people in a compressed period, I don't think most OCI interviewers read the writing samples. You have to be prepared for the ones that do, but the writing sample is unlikely to be make or break as it is for, say, interviews with judges.
You probably know better than me. I had OCI for my current summer public defender position, which required a writing sample, and the writing sample never came up in the interview presumably because I'll be standing up in misdemeanor court and not writing appellate briefs.
Traditional biglaw OCI at top schools is partially or wholly a lottery system (I.e., firms don't pick who they interview), so there are many interviews that were not vetted in the same way as regular interviews. OCI for non-biglaw (such as your anecdote) is completely different.
economist123
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Re: Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by economist123 »

Thank you all! I think I will stick with my law school paper but my memo is too short so probably selected sections from a longer law essay. I had a few followups. To fit it to 10 pages, I need to cut out two parts of the essay, is that fine instead of cutting out just 1 part. When cutting out a part do we have to state it there on what got cut out and a summary of the cut out?
Also, my career counsellor says it can be 10 pages SINGLE, but my peers said its 10 pages DOUBLE. What is the standard for big law because they don't say?
lolwat
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Re: Suggestions for Writing Sample

Post by lolwat »

1. Law school paper, no undergrad
2. Interesting topics are actually better than the same shit everyone else in your class had to write about as part of the class or something, but pick whatever is the best written--no typos/other mistakes, good analysis, etc.
3. I'd do double or 1.5 spaced, whatever is the norm for filing in federal courts (I think double?) no one likes reading single spaced documents really
4. You can have a cover to your writing sample that basically says "This writing sample is an excerpt from x, I have omitted sections a and b which discuss c." Or something. Someone will have something better than this, just off the top of my head before I head out this morning :P

Generally (but not always), people at firms especially during OCI won't care much about your writing sample other than maybe ask you some questions about what it's about, etc., especially if it's something interesting. I'd imagine some people might do some light skimming to see what it's about, or to look for obvious mistake/typo type issues. I've only had people clearly read it for clerkship interviews and smaller firms (where the interviewee pool is much smaller so more time spent on each applicant that made it to that stage).
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