Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

lolwat
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by lolwat » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:24 am

dog wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:12 am
addie1412 wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:41 am
Currently in the process of making aaaall the mistakes at my SA
Never seriously doubted my research skills until starting a couple weeks ago. Admittedly some super informal assignments and pretty narrow questions, but still. Not a good feeling.
It's not a mistake unless you actually did miss something. Half the time there's nothing directly on point and you're stuck cobbling together an argument based on what is out there. That kind of shit never makes anybody happy, but as long as you're confident you looked where the answer would be if it existed, and you can explain it, you should be OK. Although I've run into my fair share of people that have the mentality of "this question HAS to have come up before" to everything. Sure, maybe it has, but that doesn't mean there's published authority on point we can rely on.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by SmokeytheBear » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:35 am

The above and the constant anxiety it produces (“did I miss the one case that would have been on point?”) is maybe 65-75% of the reason I’m not a litigator. Not joking.

Anonymous Online

Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by Anonymous Online » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 pm

Touching on the "not making a big deal about not drinking", what do people who have dietary restrictions do? I've never been able to navigate this well. I do NOT want anyone to make special arrangements, I'm fine eating before/after and just nursing a drink, but at food events it can be really awkward. Advice?

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by SmokeytheBear » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:34 pm

Anonymous Online wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 pm
Touching on the "not making a big deal about not drinking", what do people who have dietary restrictions do? I've never been able to navigate this well. I do NOT want anyone to make special arrangements, I'm fine eating before/after and just nursing a drink, but at food events it can be really awkward. Advice?
What do you mean by "food events"?

Anonymous Online

Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by Anonymous Online » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:43 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:34 pm
Anonymous Online wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 pm
Touching on the "not making a big deal about not drinking", what do people who have dietary restrictions do? I've never been able to navigate this well. I do NOT want anyone to make special arrangements, I'm fine eating before/after and just nursing a drink, but at food events it can be really awkward. Advice?
What do you mean by "food events"?
Lunch, cafes, any social event where food is served. I won't be able to eat anything.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by SmokeytheBear » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:47 pm

Anonymous Online wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:43 pm
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:34 pm
Anonymous Online wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 pm
Touching on the "not making a big deal about not drinking", what do people who have dietary restrictions do? I've never been able to navigate this well. I do NOT want anyone to make special arrangements, I'm fine eating before/after and just nursing a drink, but at food events it can be really awkward. Advice?
What do you mean by "food events"?
Lunch, cafes, any social event where food is served. I won't be able to eat anything.
I can understand this being a concern. What city are you in and what are your dietary restrictions?

For example, if you’re vegan and in LA or SF, it won’t be an issue. But I could see being glueton free and vegan in, day, Houston or Dallas being difficult.

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UVA2B
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by UVA2B » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:23 pm

Anonymous Online wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 pm
Touching on the "not making a big deal about not drinking", what do people who have dietary restrictions do? I've never been able to navigate this well. I do NOT want anyone to make special arrangements, I'm fine eating before/after and just nursing a drink, but at food events it can be really awkward. Advice?
Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve never experienced a stigma around having dietary restrictions. In fact, every food event I’ve ever been to (lunches, mixers, dinners, etc.) have specifically asked in the RSVP about dietary restrictions. I would just voice your particular restriction to someone you’ve gotten to know early on and just mention you’re vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, ciliacs/gluten resistance, etc. anytime an event that includes food is proposed or planned. I think it’s sufficiently in people’s consciousness that dietary restrictions are a reality of modern day life.

Now if you’re particularly vegan, vegetarian, etc. on ethical grounds where you struggle being around people eating meat or animal products, you’ll probably just have to suck that up and accept you don’t have a choice in the matter.

Anonymous Online

Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by Anonymous Online » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:51 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:23 pm
Anonymous Online wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 pm
Touching on the "not making a big deal about not drinking", what do people who have dietary restrictions do? I've never been able to navigate this well. I do NOT want anyone to make special arrangements, I'm fine eating before/after and just nursing a drink, but at food events it can be really awkward. Advice?
Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve never experienced a stigma around having dietary restrictions. In fact, every food event I’ve ever been to (lunches, mixers, dinners, etc.) have specifically asked in the RSVP about dietary restrictions. I would just voice your particular restriction to someone you’ve gotten to know early on and just mention you’re vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, ciliacs/gluten resistance, etc. anytime an event that includes food is proposed or planned. I think it’s sufficiently in people’s consciousness that dietary restrictions are a reality of modern day life.

Now if you’re particularly vegan, vegetarian, etc. on ethical grounds where you struggle being around people eating meat or animal products, you’ll probably just have to suck that up and accept you don’t have a choice in the matter.
RSVP makes it worse, because you really stand out if you have a Special Meal waiting for you. Been there.

Smokey- I keep kosher, and a pretty strict version of it. Location isn't relevant, but it's not NY, where people are a bit more familiar.

I've never had anyone care, nor does it bother me if others eat their sinful pork and seafood, but it makes for awkward social interactions. My goal is to fulfill Smokey's cardinal rule of being as forgettable as possible, while also going to events and lunch meetings. I'm not worried about stigma, not that there's anything I can do about it, I'm just looking for tips on how to navigate this a little less awkwardly.

3LOL

Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by 3LOL » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:19 pm

Anonymous Online wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:51 pm
UVA2B wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:23 pm
Anonymous Online wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 pm
Touching on the "not making a big deal about not drinking", what do people who have dietary restrictions do? I've never been able to navigate this well. I do NOT want anyone to make special arrangements, I'm fine eating before/after and just nursing a drink, but at food events it can be really awkward. Advice?
Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve never experienced a stigma around having dietary restrictions. In fact, every food event I’ve ever been to (lunches, mixers, dinners, etc.) have specifically asked in the RSVP about dietary restrictions. I would just voice your particular restriction to someone you’ve gotten to know early on and just mention you’re vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, ciliacs/gluten resistance, etc. anytime an event that includes food is proposed or planned. I think it’s sufficiently in people’s consciousness that dietary restrictions are a reality of modern day life.

Now if you’re particularly vegan, vegetarian, etc. on ethical grounds where you struggle being around people eating meat or animal products, you’ll probably just have to suck that up and accept you don’t have a choice in the matter.
RSVP makes it worse, because you really stand out if you have a Special Meal waiting for you. Been there.

Smokey- I keep kosher, and a pretty strict version of it. Location isn't relevant, but it's not NY, where people are a bit more familiar.

I've never had anyone care, nor does it bother me if others eat their sinful pork and seafood, but it makes for awkward social interactions. My goal is to fulfill Smokey's cardinal rule of being as forgettable as possible, while also going to events and lunch meetings. I'm not worried about stigma, not that there's anything I can do about it, I'm just looking for tips on how to navigate this a little less awkwardly.

Apologies if I'm wrong, but is a vegetarian meal kosher? I have some weird food allergies that are accommodated by being vegetarian. I can eat outside of veg, but it's so much harder to navigate and accommodate than if I just ask for vegetarian meals. So that's what I do. If it turns out I'm at a place where I can eat the animal products I will, but if not, I can eat the veg. meal. I don't have to explain that I can't break down animal proteins from certain animals, and no one bats an eye at a veg. meal.

riot
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by riot » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:36 pm

I'm honestly having trouble picturing a law firm where somebody ripping open a kosher package is a notable occurrence

Anonymous Online

Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by Anonymous Online » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:45 pm

Vegetarian can be kosher if it's raw - so like a salad with no dressing or some fruit could work. But once you have to make such a detailed order it's probably better to just not bother and just drink. The "kosher meal" when they have such an option is almost always not kosher enough for me. This stuff is complex enough trying to explain in this forum, imagine being in a situation where you don't want it to become the topic of conversation. It's probably not that unusual, but it's something that I need to navigate.

BigZuck
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by BigZuck » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:59 pm

Ultimately if you're worried you're going to get no offered for not being able to eat certain types of food or drink alcohol because of religious reasons definitely don't because a place run by/full of lawyers isn't going to dare mess with someone's employment if it can be perceived as religious discrimination in any way, shape or form.

If anything not being able to do something because of religious reasons is going to HELP you get hired, not hurt you.

If you're worried it's just going to be socially awkward A) No it won't no one cares, B) No one is going to remember in a year and a half when you start up full time (honestly they probably will have quit/lateraled by then anyway), and C) If they do care and hold it against you they're garbage and it doesn't matter.

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UVA2B
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by UVA2B » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:01 pm

Anonymous Online wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:51 pm
UVA2B wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:23 pm
Anonymous Online wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:31 pm
Touching on the "not making a big deal about not drinking", what do people who have dietary restrictions do? I've never been able to navigate this well. I do NOT want anyone to make special arrangements, I'm fine eating before/after and just nursing a drink, but at food events it can be really awkward. Advice?
Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve never experienced a stigma around having dietary restrictions. In fact, every food event I’ve ever been to (lunches, mixers, dinners, etc.) have specifically asked in the RSVP about dietary restrictions. I would just voice your particular restriction to someone you’ve gotten to know early on and just mention you’re vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, ciliacs/gluten resistance, etc. anytime an event that includes food is proposed or planned. I think it’s sufficiently in people’s consciousness that dietary restrictions are a reality of modern day life.

Now if you’re particularly vegan, vegetarian, etc. on ethical grounds where you struggle being around people eating meat or animal products, you’ll probably just have to suck that up and accept you don’t have a choice in the matter.
RSVP makes it worse, because you really stand out if you have a Special Meal waiting for you. Been there.

Smokey- I keep kosher, and a pretty strict version of it. Location isn't relevant, but it's not NY, where people are a bit more familiar.

I've never had anyone care, nor does it bother me if others eat their sinful pork and seafood, but it makes for awkward social interactions. My goal is to fulfill Smokey's cardinal rule of being as forgettable as possible, while also going to events and lunch meetings. I'm not worried about stigma, not that there's anything I can do about it, I'm just looking for tips on how to navigate this a little less awkwardly.
But it's not awkward, because everyone accepts that these restrictions exist and they don't even warrant a question.

Respectfully, you might be overthinking this. And I wouldn't refer to other people's food choices as "sinful," especially when you're the one worried that your choices will be seen as somehow a problem.

If you're orthodox and require completely kosher meals, RSVP or let the person in charge of handling food know you're orthodox and need kosher accommodations. Then, when the topic comes up, just briefly mention that your religion requires kosher foods, and that will likely be the end of it. Much like the drinking conversation, the only one who can make it weird or uncomfortable is you.

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pneumonia
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by pneumonia » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:45 am

I took the "sinful" comment as a joke, which I think (?) was how it was intended.

I worked one summer at a large firm in TX where there several full-time associates who kept kosher. They never came to any of the lunch events, but they were generally pleasant and they participated in the other stuff that didn't involve food. Then at the end of the summer they loaded up all the summer associates and took us 45 minutes across town to their favorite kosher restaurant. Morals of the story are (a) these guys got jobs at a big law firm, and (b) your dietary restrictions will only be an issue if you make it one.

I agree with Zuck though that you can probably expect firms to trip over themselves to accommodate you. So I wouldn't worry about it.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by SmokeytheBear » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:47 am

Looks like we got this food issue covered.

I fully agree it won’t be an issue unless you make it one.

riot
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by riot » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:50 am

In all seriousness OP it’s going to be more awkward if you don’t eat. People wants summers fat and happy. Recruiting will be more than willing to work with you. Let them. If you have a list of acceptable restaurants, share it with them. If there are no acceptable restaurants on the area, I would think deeply about whether that’s an area you want to be long term, because I would hazard a guess that it’s missing other cultural things that are important to you.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by SmokeytheBear » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:51 am

riot wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:50 am
In all seriousness OP it’s going to be more awkward if you don’t eat. People wants summers fat and happy. Recruiting will be more than willing to work with you. Let them. If you have a list of acceptable restaurants, share it with them. If there are no acceptable restaurants on the area, I would think deeply about whether that’s an area you want to be long term, because I would hazard a guess that it’s missing other cultural things that are important to you.
Issue spotting life right there.

riot
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by riot » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:55 am

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:51 am
riot wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:50 am
In all seriousness OP it’s going to be more awkward if you don’t eat. People wants summers fat and happy. Recruiting will be more than willing to work with you. Let them. If you have a list of acceptable restaurants, share it with them. If there are no acceptable restaurants on the area, I would think deeply about whether that’s an area you want to be long term, because I would hazard a guess that it’s missing other cultural things that are important to you.
Issue spotting life right there.
I CANT TURN IT OFF. live your life OP, sorry for lawyering at you

cprit91
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by cprit91 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:25 pm

This seems like Smokey’s Guide to Your First Job Ever or for People Who Suck

riot
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by riot » Sat Jul 14, 2018 4:29 pm

cprit91 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:25 pm
This seems like Smokey’s Guide to Your First Job Ever or for People Who Suck
Yes that’s the point

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pneumonia
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Re: Smokey’s Guide to Biglaw Summer Associate

Post by pneumonia » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:19 pm

cprit91 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:25 pm
This seems like Smokey’s Guide to Your First Job Ever or for People Who Suck
that's because lots of law students have never had a job before and/or suck

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