Confused

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sayubi720
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Confused

Post by sayubi720 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:51 am

Hello everyone!

As someone who values education, I graduated with a Bachelors in Science and with my quest to learn new things, I got a few IT certifications and started working as a network engineer. Though I never thought it would happen, I went back to school full-time, while also working full-time, to get my Masters in IT (Cyber Security). I managed to graduate with a 3.7 GPA in one of the most sought after programs by the Federal government (I live in the metropolitan DC area).

Lately, I have been wanting to attend Law School; I work within walking distance of Georgetown Law School and that is all I think about. On the other hand, I can stay within my career (which is quite lucrative and in-demand) and invest my time and energy in obtaining more certifications. In other words, I can manage to land high-paying jobs by obtaining more IT certifications without accumulating a massive debt (which I would if I decide to go to law school).

I won't lie, money is a big factor in all of this. While I realize that a lawyer can potentially earn a lot (coming out of a prestigious school), I know that professionals in my field (with some experience) make about $150K a year (in some rare cases, I've met people who make close to $300K). That number - $150K - might pale in comparison to what a good lawyer makes but at least I will be debt-free (if I stick to IT). However, a lawyer is far more respected than an IT professional. And staying on the topic of numbers, I will be turning 32 so if I decide to attend law school, I will start next year when I'm 33.

I would appreciate any and all advise.

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UVA2B
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Re: Confused

Post by UVA2B » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:19 am

Why do you think you want to go to law school? What kind of job as an attorney interests you?

Going to law school would be less of a financial decision for you and more a shift in profession (although the potential financial ramifications are huge). That may be the right call, or it may be a horrible one, depending on how well you’ve thought through your reasons for going to law school.

Don’t go because you value education. Go because there is an attorney job you want more than your current career.

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HelloYesThisIsDog
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Re: Confused

Post by HelloYesThisIsDog » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:46 am

You're actually making more than the majority of attorneys, OP. Only a smaller subset (maybe a quarter) make more than you, and they usually leave those jobs for lower paying ones after a few years. It's a rare one who makes partner in a big firm or gets a huge class action settlement at a plaintiff's firm. You should put the money out of your mind and think more about why this even interests you.

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presh
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Re: Confused

Post by presh » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:48 am

I’m with UVA on this one. Your desire to go to law school, at least as described in this post, seem pretty amorphous. Is there a specific kind of law you want to practice? Why? Your post seems more like you just think it would be more interesting/respectable than what you do now. But law is a difficult profession and going to law school isn’t a guarantee of working as a lawyer. You could spend three years of your life to get a job you don’t end up liking.

Do you have any lawyer friends or acquaintances you can talk to about the day to day work?

Also I disagree that lawyers are significantly more respected than IT professionals. Maybe among boomers or maybe I’m just cynical because everyone wants to tell me their lawyer jokes.

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Nony
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Re: Confused

Post by Nony » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:50 am

I get that the IT job probably requires being on call to help people who aren’t necessarily in the best state of mind when they deal with you...but that’s also almost exactly what lawyers do.

sayubi720
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Re: Confused

Post by sayubi720 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:26 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:19 am
Why do you think you want to go to law school? What kind of job as an attorney interests you?
I am still in the process of learning why I want to go to law school so having said that, I am sure it is obvious that I have not thought about what sort of job (as an attorney) interests me. However, your last statement, urging me to take up law because it is something I value more than my career, is a great piece of advice. Thank you.


HelloYesThisIsDog wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:46 am
You're actually making more than the majority of attorneys, OP. Only a smaller subset (maybe a quarter) make more than you, and they usually leave those jobs for lower paying ones after a few years.
My post may have been misleading. I do not make $150K or close to it; I only know individuals who, having stayed in IT for a few years, have landed jobs that pay them $150K, or even more.


presh wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:48 am
Your desire to go to law school, at least as described in this post, seem pretty amorphous.

Your post seems more like you just think it would be more interesting/respectable than what you do now.

You could spend three years of your life to get a job you don’t end up liking.

Do you have any lawyer friends or acquaintances you can talk to about the day to day work?
I have restructured your post so that I can comment on what I am able to. Absolutely amorphous, as you suggested, and my desire seems as such because I have only been contemplating on it for the past few weeks. And I won't lie, I do believe that a lawyer is more respected than many other professions. As for getting a job I may not like, I believe there is nothing I enjoy to do (in terms of profession). Waking up every morning to go to work, whatever that profession may be, is not appealing to me other than the harsh reality that it is a mode of sustenance. Therefore, I choose to do what pays for the things I like to do. For example, I got into IT because the money is good and it affords me to travel. Please don't suggest me to become a commercial airline pilot lol; I am afraid of flying (although I fly anyways) and if I were to travel for a living, I bet it won't be as fun.

The good news in all of this is that I have a friend whose brother graduated from Georgetown Law School. I have scheduled a time to speak with him regarding my options.


Nony wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:50 am
I get that the IT job probably requires being on call to help people who aren’t necessarily in the best state of mind when they deal with you...but that’s also almost exactly what lawyers do.
Nah, IT is the most laid back career.

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Re: Confused

Post by UVA2B » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:31 pm

You shouldn’t edit out the other things people said in order to respond to them, because it does a disservice to the context of the point they were making.

And if you don’t think you’d enjoy being an attorney and you’re only looking for money to pay for the other things you do, then there is a harsh truth you’d need to be comfortable with: in law you’re likely to be sacrificing way more of your time than you do now in IT if it’s as laid back as you suggest.

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Re: Confused

Post by presh » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:42 pm

If travel is a big deal to you, law is not a good option. Most law jobs make it difficult to schedule time off. I work in one of the few law jobs where that is not normally the case, and there are still a solid six months of the year when I can’t schedule vacation until the last minute.

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Re: Confused

Post by HelloYesThisIsDog » Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:13 pm

My point about money still stands even if you're making $70k-100k a year. Lawyers generally don't make a ton of money. Google bimodal salary distribution curve for lawyers. You'll quickly see where the bulk of lawyers are.

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Re: Confused

Post by sayubi720 » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:31 am

UVA2B wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:31 pm
You shouldn’t edit out the other things people said in order to respond to them, because it does a disservice to the context of the point they were making.

And if you don’t think you’d enjoy being an attorney and you’re only looking for money to pay for the other things you do, then there is a harsh truth you’d need to be comfortable with: in law you’re likely to be sacrificing way more of your time than you do now in IT if it’s as laid back as you suggest.
I edited posts to keep my post size within a certain limit. Editing your post, and the rest, does not equate with me not taking note of, or not appreciating, the points raised in them, including what you said regarding sacrificing more time as an attorney than in IT.


presh wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:42 pm
If travel is a big deal to you, law is not a good option. Most law jobs make it difficult to schedule time off. I work in one of the few law jobs where that is not normally the case, and there are still a solid six months of the year when I can’t schedule vacation until the last minute.
I think I will need to balance it out, if I decide to go to law school. How often do we need vacations anyways? Once a year? Twice a year max (for me at least)! In the end, I see life as a settling-down process with me laying roots as time goes on.


HelloYesThisIsDog wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:13 pm
My point about money still stands even if you're making $70k-100k a year. Lawyers generally don't make a ton of money. Google bimodal salary distribution curve for lawyers. You'll quickly see where the bulk of lawyers are.
I will look into that. Thank you.

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Slippin’ Jimmy
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Re: Confused

Post by Slippin’ Jimmy » Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:37 pm

Do not go to law school to get more respect, which seems like a big factor for you since you keep repeating that lawyers are more respected than IT people. You also should not be anywhere close to making this decision after only considering it for a couple weeks. Talk to lawyers in the field you want to go in, find out about their day to day. As someone who currently works in IT, you'd be going from one of the most casual and laid back fields to one of the most serious and uptight, and you very well could end up earning only marginally more per hour when you consider that most big money law jobs entail much more time working than a standard 9-5.

It seems to me like you go by a beautiful law campus every day on your way to work, and some vague idea of respect and prestige is drawing you to the field. Do you enjoy IT at all? Do you like the casual nature of the work environment, where in most cases you won't have trouble taking time off or leaving the office early every once in a while? Because if you do, it probably isn't a smart move to make a very expensive career change assuming you are already earning a decent salary with room to grow.

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Re: Confused

Post by presh » Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:05 pm

sayubi720 wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:31 am
presh wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:42 pm
If travel is a big deal to you, law is not a good option. Most law jobs make it difficult to schedule time off. I work in one of the few law jobs where that is not normally the case, and there are still a solid six months of the year when I can’t schedule vacation until the last minute.
I think I will need to balance it out, if I decide to go to law school. How often do we need vacations anyways? Once a year? Twice a year max (for me at least)! In the end, I see life as a settling-down process with me laying roots as time goes on.


HelloYesThisIsDog wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 1:13 pm
My point about money still stands even if you're making $70k-100k a year. Lawyers generally don't make a ton of money. Google bimodal salary distribution curve for lawyers. You'll quickly see where the bulk of lawyers are.
I will look into that. Thank you.
This is why you really need to talk to actual lawyers (and maybe listen to the ones on this board). You have focused on the least important part of my comment. The kind of jobs you seem like you would want - the prestigious ones that pay a lot? Not only do they have crazy long hours and way more stress than your current job, they also make it very difficult to take vacation. Think having to take your laptop with you so you are reachable 24/7 even though its a vacation, having your office call you at 2 am because they don't give a shit that you are in Europe and in a different time zone, having to cancel a trip at the last minute because a case you're working on just blew up, getting called back early because a deal is falling though, going a year only to realize you haven't taken any trips at all because you've been so busy, etc. I'm not saying lawyers can never travel, but I am saying that if travel is important to you, law is not a great fit.

Here is a link to a salary distribution chart btw: https://www.nalp.org/class_of_2014_salary_curve . If you miss a chance to get one of the 160k a year jobs (which are high stress and long hours), you are likely to end up in the 45-65k range. At that point you would have spent three years and a lot of money to end up right back where you are now.

The point everyone is making here is you need to do WAY more research about what being a lawyer actually entails. Most lawyers are not rich. Most lawyers are not working the kinds of cases that make the news. Most lawyers work really stressful jobs. Going to law school because it seems cool is almost a guarantee that you will end up bitter and deep in debt at at job you hate.

Legally Bland
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Re: Confused

Post by Legally Bland » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:31 am

if you want to make more money, try to network into finance or consulting. no law degree needed

sayubi720
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Re: Confused

Post by sayubi720 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:20 am

Slippin’ Jimmy wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 12:37 pm
Do not go to law school to get more respect, which seems like a big factor for you since you keep repeating that lawyers are more respected than IT people.
Far from "repeating that lawyers are more respected than IT people"; I only made mention of it once. However, I come from a different background with a different set of values. Members here may not be able to relate with me but I was raised to value education and I moved to the US not to "settle" but to seize every positive opportunity. Yes, the numbers have to make sense but if I zoom out and look at the bigger picture, belonging to a minority group, there is always a need for a lawyer. What I mean to say is that I have personal and communal reasons and while the former outweigh the latter, if I can balance both I think it will be a rewarding career.
You also should not be anywhere close to making this decision after only considering it for a couple weeks. Talk to lawyers in the field you want to go in, find out about their day to day.
Every decision in life has a starting point. Considering it for a couple of weeks may translate to it being at its' infancy stage but for any decision to come to fruition, it must go through that infancy phase. Having said that, I spoke with my friend's brother (who is a graduate from Georgetown Law) and the picture is a lot more clear.
presh wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:05 pm
The point everyone is making here is you need to do WAY more research about what being a lawyer actually entails. Most lawyers are not rich. Most lawyers are not working the kinds of cases that make the news. Most lawyers work really stressful jobs. Going to law school because it seems cool is almost a guarantee that you will end up bitter and deep in debt at at job you hate.
Undoubtedly, I need to invest more time in research. I may have given the impression that I have already decided in a haste (to attend law school) but that is far from the truth. If anything, I am still weighing my options and I will not jump into it if I'm not 100% confident and committed. However, we circle back to the "job you hate" concept. Maybe it is cultural or perhaps I'm a realist but "I love my job" is an alien concept to me. What I know is this: I work to pay my bills. With the exception of one job, I have had the best jobs in my life. Laid back, flexible hours, awesome supervisors and great team members but I never wished to spend more time (at the office) than needed. When I finished my tasks, whether it took me 30 minutes or 10 hours, I was out.

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Re: Confused

Post by UVA2B » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:19 am

Good, keep doing that research, because your expansive generalities about how you approach life is running counter to the very concrete reasons why your sweeping generalities won't exactly work in a legal profession. Here are a few things that have been mentioned here, but bear repeating.

Your time is not your own. You won't have the freedom to be "out" when your tasks are done most of the time. Presh mentioned this, but it should be completely clear to you. If an issue comes up, a fire drill assignment comes in, and even though you've gone home or gone off to another activity, you know what you'll do? Drop what you're doing to handle the assignment. You're in the client service business after all, and if the partner/supervisor you work for needs something pressing because something came up unexpectedly, there is no being "out." There are also face time requirements at many legal employers, meaning even if there are no tasks you need to do right now doesn't mean you can jump off to do something else, and even if you can escape your office doesn't mean you don't need to be immediately responsive and able to be back in the office post haste. Vacations can be cancelled when you're literally at the airport waiting on a flight, and you may have to work your entire vacation even if you're able to get away. You have zero control over that (beyond quitting the job if it overwhelms you). To be clear, these are worst-case scenarios and no one partner/supervising attorney is exactly like another, and some may be more humane and respectful of your vacations than others, but as a general rule, the practice of law requires you to be plugged in and available 24/7/365 to give up both the things you want to plan personally and those things you've already planned that get stampeded by an assignment. I don't exactly love speaking in doom and gloom here because it won't always be that bad, but it always can be that bad, and that will take a psychological toll on you if you're used to jobs where you have a finite set of tasks, and once those are done, you're good to check out. That doesn't happen in the legal profession with any amount of regularity. (There are anecdotal accounts that in some federal government jobs that are more 9-5 type office jobs, but I even take those accounts with a grain of salt because I've heard conflicting reports from other federal government attorneys who are still required to be available in non-working hours. I'm not in those jobs, so I can only speak with second hand knowledge of that.)

There's nothing special or prestigious about the practice of law. You seem to place intrinsic value in what becoming an attorney will give to both you and your community, which is admirable because there is a kernel of truth in that. But that kernel of truth is shrouded in the very real fact that if you're working in one of those high paying jobs that will pay for the rest of your life, your time and professional life will be driven by your practice area, and relatively little time can/will be dedicated to providing any sort of "communal good." Beyond that, as I previously mentioned, this is a client-service focused profession. You won't be out righting societal wrongs or championing the rights of some defined and mistreated group (unless you try to work for a non-profit group that takes on that sort of work exclusively, but that will be both equally time-consuming and less-compensated.) You can do good for the world around you as an attorney, but be wary of imparting too much stock in that, because the great majority of your work life will be spent serving your clients, which if you want to be highly compensated (as a general rule that comes with a few exceptions) will likely involve serving corporate clients and those who have the ability to pay for high-priced legal services.

Not loving your job is very different than hating your job. I'm not saying you necessarily will hate your job, but based on the types of things you've suggested you value here and your previous work experiences strongly suggests the (generic) work environment of being an attorney will not fit what you want. So while it is never necessary to "love" your job, there is a necessity that the realities of your job can't be hated without taking a toll on your psychologically and emotionally. If you're not willing and able to give up your time and make yourself available at all times for any emergent tasks regardless of what else is going on in your life, then you very well might end up hating your job and want to get out. And at that point, you've wasted three years of your life and potentially tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars pursuing something you want to escape.

I hate speaking in so much doom and gloom because people can legitimately like the practice of law, and a career in the legal profession will not take a single form with a single defined set of experiences, but everything I've just pointed to are regular enough in the legal profession that you should come in at least expecting they can happen to you. And in order to more concretely understand whether the legal profession is for you, you'll want to start thinking about this more specifically, because generalities about valuing education and wanting to serve some communal purpose is fine, but if you're not thinking about the concrete realities of a legal career and how they'll impact your personal and professional lives, you're not accounting for the appropriate nuts and bolts of this decision. Law school is an education, but it's more accurately a professional training program designed to get you a job as an attorney. It's a gateway to the profession. So think about the profession, not just the things you value that you believe a legal career will bring to you in the abstract.

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Re: Confused

Post by HelloYesThisIsDog » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:00 am

sayubi720 wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:20 am
When I finished my tasks, whether it took me 30 minutes or 10 hours, I was out.
:lol: the problem with this generality is when you have a pile of never ending tasks and work, like I do as a lawyer, and expectations from others to turn things around on a dime.

Maybe instead of speaking in long generalities you should make a bulleted list of what you want out of a job. What are job and workplace characteristics that matter to you? Then take that and have coffee with several attorneys and show them it. See what they tell you.

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Re: Confused

Post by sayubi720 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:27 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:19 am
Good, keep doing that research, because your expansive generalities about how you approach life is running counter to the very concrete reasons why your sweeping generalities won't exactly work in a legal profession.
While I appreciate your time to respond to me, I hope you understand human adaptability. My overall life approach is far from being summarized by a few posts made on a public forum especially when you consider the depth of my willingness to learn and adapt to life's realities, whether it be studying Biology and working within that domain or making huge strides in IT and doing well within that profession.
Your time is not your own. You won't have the freedom to be "out" when your tasks are done most of the time. Presh mentioned this, but it should be completely clear to you. If an issue comes up, a fire drill assignment comes in, and even though you've gone home or gone off to another activity, you know what you'll do? Drop what you're doing to handle the assignment. You're in the client service business after all, and if the partner/supervisor you work for needs something pressing because something came up unexpectedly, there is no being "out."
Have you heard of being on-call? Or how about monitoring the entire network infrastructure down to the last power supply for hundreds of clients at a Managed Service Provider where the "fire drill assignment" is more like an everyday thing? Someone mentioned that being a lawyer, a vacation would entail having your laptop with you at all times. The IT world made such a thing possible (remote work, that is) so we are not exempt from it. In fact, we are the ones to get the call, at odd hours, when the lawyer is not able to connect to his or her office network. The key point in my phrase was, "when I finished my tasks..." and I included the very likelihood of working extra hours to finish my work.

Maybe my repeated mention of IT being "laid-back" was misconstrued as there being almost no work to do (on a daily basis) and the nonexistence of emergencies. By laid-back, however, I meant leniency in terms of dress code, access to open internet, not so uptight work environment, etc.
I don't exactly love speaking in doom and gloom here because it won't always be that bad, but it always can be that bad, and that will take a psychological toll on you if you're used to jobs where you have a finite set of tasks, and once those are done, you're good to check out.
Look, I love IT and this is what I signed up for so what I'm about to say is not a complain but try walking in the office at 7 AM, when you are barely awake, and you have three servers that cannot be accessed and an entire separate network down for another client. Or worse, an area wide outage! The concept of "finite set of tasks" in IT is almost nonexistent with monitoring tools always finding anomalies or false-positives. However, there is such a thing as downtime as well as prioritizing tasks.
There's nothing special or prestigious about the practice of law. You seem to place intrinsic value in what becoming an attorney will give to both you and your community, which is admirable because there is a kernel of truth in that. But that kernel of truth is shrouded in the very real fact that if you're working in one of those high paying jobs that will pay for the rest of your life, your time and professional life will be driven by your practice area, and relatively little time can/will be dedicated to providing any sort of "communal good." Beyond that, as I previously mentioned, this is a client-service focused profession. You won't be out righting societal wrongs or championing the rights of some defined and mistreated group (unless you try to work for a non-profit group that takes on that sort of work exclusively, but that will be both equally time-consuming and less-compensated.) You can do good for the world around you as an attorney, but be wary of imparting too much stock in that, because the great majority of your work life will be spent serving your clients, which if you want to be highly compensated (as a general rule that comes with a few exceptions) will likely involve serving corporate clients and those who have the ability to pay for high-priced legal services.
You need to understand my thought process to be able to appreciate it. If I am to research my options, I have to take everything into account. I only spared a thought to the idea of being a lawyer at the disposal of the community I belong to. In fact, I clearly stated that the former - that is, my personal reasons such as time, money, etc - override my altruism (if we could call it that).
Not loving your job is very different than hating your job. I'm not saying you necessarily will hate your job, but based on the types of things you've suggested you value here and your previous work experiences strongly suggests the (generic) work environment of being an attorney will not fit what you want.
I wonder how I revealed the types of things I value by just stating that I like to travel? To be honest, I value education more than traveling. That, however, does not mean that I will always pick education over leisure.
If you're not willing and able to give up your time and make yourself available at all times for any emergent tasks regardless of what else is going on in your life, then you very well might end up hating your job and want to get out.
Is there any other profession, requiring higher education beyond undergrad, that does not require you to give up your time and to make yourself available for emergent tasks? While my conversation with my friend's brother was an eye-opener, you may or may not be surprised to know that a day prior, he had just returned from a long vacation. And he works for a big law firm!

As you rightly pointed out, you speak in "much doom and gloom" because in all of my conversation with him, the daily work routine was not something he touched upon. He, however, had a lot to say regarding the work load while going through law school (he attended law school part-time while having a full-time job). It is understood that those three to four years of rigorous work prepares you for the workplace challenges and all the outstanding circumstances you might face. So, he briefed me on an action plan that starts at step 1 which is to familiarize myself with the LSATs (look at sample exams) while I further research my options to see whether I want to pursue law or not.

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Re: Confused

Post by sayubi720 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:35 pm

HelloYesThisIsDog wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:00 am
:lol: the problem with this generality is when you have a pile of never ending tasks and work, like I do as a lawyer, and expectations from others to turn things around on a dime.
Imagine the CEO of a company breathing down your neck because as their managed service provider, it is your responsibility to restore their services. The fact that they have been down for over an hour has already been converted to a monetary value which is their total loss, and counting. So there are expectations from us too, quantifiable expectations!
Maybe instead of speaking in long generalities you should make a bulleted list of what you want out of a job. What are job and workplace characteristics that matter to you? Then take that and have coffee with several attorneys and show them it. See what they tell you.
I am reaching out to a few other folks too but I am starting to think I could launch a side gig here, as a career change advisor, on this forum for those who seem to be quite frustrated with their professional lives. I have yet to meet one person here who has said something positive. I am only kidding.

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Re: Confused

Post by Nony » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:35 pm

Really, your time in law school actually doesn’t prepare you for workplace challenges and all the outstanding circumstances you might face. At all. You should talk to him about his daily routine. And what kind of job he has. And what it pays. And how his classmates are doing. (Also, if you want to go to law school your undergrad GPA is very important.)

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Re: Confused

Post by sayubi720 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:45 am

Nony wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:35 pm
Really, your time in law school actually doesn’t prepare you for workplace challenges and all the outstanding circumstances you might face. At all.
Then what does? I understand a similar dilemma in IT where hands-on experience trumps lab simulations but that latter is your foundation which you build upon.
You should talk to him about his daily routine.
I should, however, if it was half as bad as what I am hearing from members here, I am sure he would have spared a moment to talk about it.
And what kind of job he has. And what it pays.
He started as an attorney and is now a senior managing director at a law firm. I am never comfortable asking someone his or her salary so I did not ask but I know he was making $180K at his first job as an attorney.
And how his classmates are doing. (Also, if you want to go to law school your undergrad GPA is very important.)
I did not know that undergrad GPA is important. As for his classmates, I do not care because I, if I decide to get into law school, wish to emulate his success. I know him and a few other folks who went to law school so I'm in the process of reaching out to them.

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Re: Confused

Post by Nony » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:00 am

1) not much prepares you, but talking to attorneys and actually working in the legal field prepares you more.

2) I don’t think you can assume anything about his daily routine if you don’t talk to him about it.

3) of course you should find out how his classmates did. Just because you want to emulate this guy doesn’t mean it will happen. You want to find out the full range of options that people he went to school with had open to them, and, for instance, how many of them stayed in law and enjoyed it and how many are doing other things now. (Also consider when he graduated and whether the economy is the same now as when he started, if he’s a managing director.)

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Re: Confused

Post by DOT » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:02 am

sayubi720 wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 10:45 am

I did not know that undergrad GPA is important. As for his classmates, I do not care because I, if I decide to get into law school, wish to emulate his success. I know him and a few other folks who went to law school so I'm in the process of reaching out to them.
I believe the notion here is that you should look at a sample size of larger than one person to establish expectations about what your career will look like. If you do that, you'll see that similarly situated/skilled individuals ended up in a variety of different positions (and boast a variety of different salaries) in many cases due to variance/other unforeseen factors. You may go into law school intending to be like person X, but you're depriving yourself of a more reasonable basis for what you can expect your career to look like if you do not consider his/her classmates' (who likely had similar skills and ambitions and "deserved" the same success as X) experiences.

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Re: Confused

Post by sayubi720 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:40 am

Nony wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:00 am
1) not much prepares you, but talking to attorneys and actually working in the legal field prepares you more.
Agreed!
2) I don’t think you can assume anything about his daily routine if you don’t talk to him about it.
I am not assuming anything regarding his daily routine except we have an action plan in place. Discussing daily routine will come in due time. I think a big gap here is the idea that you should know what you are getting into. As I have said before, work is work and it is only good to pay the bills. Maybe its cultural but I was not raised to love my job; I was raised to value education, to be good at what I do and to never be complacent in one role or place.
3) of course you should find out how his classmates did. Just because you want to emulate this guy doesn’t mean it will happen. You want to find out the full range of options that people he went to school with had open to them, and, for instance, how many of them stayed in law and enjoyed it and how many are doing other things now. (Also consider when he graduated and whether the economy is the same now as when he started, if he’s a managing director.)
The word "enjoy" does not exist in my vocabulary when it comes to work, unfortunately. I enjoy sleeping in. There is not a single line of work that would afford me that. I also do a little bit of boxing on the side so I enjoy spending my entire day at the gym. However, I cannot do that. What I can do is make sacrifices now - that is, put myself through rigorous schedules for the next 4 to 5 years - and then sit back when I've moved into a senior role.

As for when he graduated, he finished law school at the peak of the 2008 financial crisis. And of course, as I said earlier, I have other people I am reaching out to as well (who went to law school).

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Re: Confused

Post by sayubi720 » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:41 am

DOT wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:02 am
I believe the notion here is that you should look at a sample size of larger than one person to establish expectations about what your career will look like. If you do that, you'll see that similarly situated/skilled individuals ended up in a variety of different positions (and boast a variety of different salaries) in many cases due to variance/other unforeseen factors. You may go into law school intending to be like person X, but you're depriving yourself of a more reasonable basis for what you can expect your career to look like if you do not consider his/her classmates' (who likely had similar skills and ambitions and "deserved" the same success as X) experiences.
"I know him and a few other folks who went to law school so I'm in the process of reaching out to them."

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Re: Confused

Post by Nony » Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:55 am

Well, okay, but maybe you should read “enjoy” in this context as “don’t hate so much I can’t stay in the job.” Because there’s a difference between not enjoying and not being able to tolerate.

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