So you think you want BigLaw?

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existentialcrisis
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by existentialcrisis » Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:41 pm

quiver wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:49 am
beep wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:14 pm
samseaborn wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:45 pm
HelloYesThisIsDog wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:39 pm

I've gained 10 pounds as a first year lit associate, v50, and the stress is a big part of it. Some of that is my own poor time management but the pressure is definitely real.

I think you can do it but you're going to have to be really mindful of your time.
Can I ask what the all-nighter situation is like in lit? Definitely just going to pick the lesser of two devils regarding sleep schedule lol
Also west coast lit at a west coast firm. I've probably done like 10-15 all-nighters coming up on two years of practice, but only like two of those were expected/required. Rest were just due to my own procrastination. And thankfully all were at home rather than in the office. I realize that's small consolation, but that sort of thing does matter sanity-wise.
This is going to vary widely by firm, practice area, and even specific partners. As beep points out, some associates also tend to pull all nighters more than others even when they're not technically necessary. I'm not sure there's a good way to generalize here.
Also, "all-nighter" is sort of a nebulous term.

In the past year I have only one time worked all night without going home into the next day.

On the other hand, I have easily double digit times worked until after 4 and been back in the office before 9.

samseaborn
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by samseaborn » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:33 pm

existentialcrisis wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:41 pm
quiver wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:49 am
beep wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:14 pm
samseaborn wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:45 pm
HelloYesThisIsDog wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:39 pm

I've gained 10 pounds as a first year lit associate, v50, and the stress is a big part of it. Some of that is my own poor time management but the pressure is definitely real.

I think you can do it but you're going to have to be really mindful of your time.
Can I ask what the all-nighter situation is like in lit? Definitely just going to pick the lesser of two devils regarding sleep schedule lol
Also west coast lit at a west coast firm. I've probably done like 10-15 all-nighters coming up on two years of practice, but only like two of those were expected/required. Rest were just due to my own procrastination. And thankfully all were at home rather than in the office. I realize that's small consolation, but that sort of thing does matter sanity-wise.
This is going to vary widely by firm, practice area, and even specific partners. As beep points out, some associates also tend to pull all nighters more than others even when they're not technically necessary. I'm not sure there's a good way to generalize here.
Also, "all-nighter" is sort of a nebulous term.

In the past year I have only one time worked all night without going home into the next day.

On the other hand, I have easily double digit times worked until after 4 and been back in the office before 9.
May I ask what practice area and market? This sounds horrible and I really need to reconsider for my health.

existentialcrisis
Posts: 19
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:53 pm

Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by existentialcrisis » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:37 pm

samseaborn wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:33 pm
existentialcrisis wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:41 pm
quiver wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:49 am
beep wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:14 pm
samseaborn wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:45 pm
HelloYesThisIsDog wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:39 pm

I've gained 10 pounds as a first year lit associate, v50, and the stress is a big part of it. Some of that is my own poor time management but the pressure is definitely real.

I think you can do it but you're going to have to be really mindful of your time.
Can I ask what the all-nighter situation is like in lit? Definitely just going to pick the lesser of two devils regarding sleep schedule lol
Also west coast lit at a west coast firm. I've probably done like 10-15 all-nighters coming up on two years of practice, but only like two of those were expected/required. Rest were just due to my own procrastination. And thankfully all were at home rather than in the office. I realize that's small consolation, but that sort of thing does matter sanity-wise.
This is going to vary widely by firm, practice area, and even specific partners. As beep points out, some associates also tend to pull all nighters more than others even when they're not technically necessary. I'm not sure there's a good way to generalize here.
Also, "all-nighter" is sort of a nebulous term.

In the past year I have only one time worked all night without going home into the next day.

On the other hand, I have easily double digit times worked until after 4 and been back in the office before 9.
May I ask what practice area and market? This sounds horrible and I really need to reconsider for my health.
NYC transactional, but not M&A.

I don't want to suggest that that's part of my typical week or anything though.

Also should probably walk back the double digits thing because I have no idea. Possibly less, but definitely on several occasions.

But generally I think my point was that in law school when I thought about pulling all-nighters it was in the context of staying up super late one night cramming for a test, or finishing a paper and then just crashing the next day.

What I didn't consider was that in biglaw, when you're staying up super late its because there's a ton of work to do, and often times there will be even more to do the next day. In my admittedly limited experience, it's more likely to be a couple days (or even a couple of weeks) of barely sleeping than it is to be one night of not sleeping at all.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by SmokeytheBear » Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:52 am

Just chiming in to comment on someone's previous comment that a lot of the reasons for all nighters or weight gain was due to poor time management.

This is very, very true.

As a junior, your schedule isn't really yours, but if you solidify good habits during 3L or your bar study, it will be easier to carry them over to work. Start running every morning--even if it's just 30 minutes. Find a gym by your office so you can pop in their during lunch or after you ship some docs. Make working out part of your routine as early as possible so it makes it harder to break the habit while working.

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HelloYesThisIsDog
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by HelloYesThisIsDog » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:47 am

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:52 am
Just chiming in to comment on someone's previous comment that a lot of the reasons for all nighters or weight gain was due to poor time management.

This is very, very true.

As a junior, your schedule isn't really yours, but if you solidify good habits during 3L or your bar study, it will be easier to carry them over to work. Start running every morning--even if it's just 30 minutes. Find a gym by your office so you can pop in their during lunch or after you ship some docs. Make working out part of your routine as early as possible so it makes it harder to break the habit while working.
+1, but also now I feel guilty because of my horrible habits. 😭

samseaborn
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by samseaborn » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:42 am

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:52 am
Just chiming in to comment on someone's previous comment that a lot of the reasons for all nighters or weight gain was due to poor time management.

This is very, very true.

As a junior, your schedule isn't really yours, but if you solidify good habits during 3L or your bar study, it will be easier to carry them over to work. Start running every morning--even if it's just 30 minutes. Find a gym by your office so you can pop in their during lunch or after you ship some docs. Make working out part of your routine as early as possible so it makes it harder to break the habit while working.
Thanks for the insight! Definitely plan on solidifying my health habits, like working out and eating super healthy. My main concern was just that all-nighters, even a few per month, have such irreversible damage on one’s skin/hormonal balance/hair loss that not even working out religiously can fix... :(

Don’t mean to whine but I guess the consideration is whether this kind of schedule is worth jeopardizing long term health for

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by SmokeytheBear » Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:30 am

samseaborn wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:42 am
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:52 am
Just chiming in to comment on someone's previous comment that a lot of the reasons for all nighters or weight gain was due to poor time management.

This is very, very true.

As a junior, your schedule isn't really yours, but if you solidify good habits during 3L or your bar study, it will be easier to carry them over to work. Start running every morning--even if it's just 30 minutes. Find a gym by your office so you can pop in their during lunch or after you ship some docs. Make working out part of your routine as early as possible so it makes it harder to break the habit while working.
Thanks for the insight! Definitely plan on solidifying my health habits, like working out and eating super healthy. My main concern was just that all-nighters, even a few per month, have such irreversible damage on one’s skin/hormonal balance/hair loss that not even working out religiously can fix... :(

Don’t mean to whine but I guess the consideration is whether this kind of schedule is worth jeopardizing long term health for
I’m sure this is something you can throw money at the reverse. They pay us what they do for a reason.

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quiver
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by quiver » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:15 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:52 am
Just chiming in to comment on someone's previous comment that a lot of the reasons for all nighters or weight gain was due to poor time management.

This is very, very true.

As a junior, your schedule isn't really yours, but if you solidify good habits during 3L or your bar study, it will be easier to carry them over to work. Start running every morning--even if it's just 30 minutes. Find a gym by your office so you can pop in their during lunch or after you ship some docs. Make working out part of your routine as early as possible so it makes it harder to break the habit while working.
Eh, I think this depends on the person/schedule. Obviously this is specific to me, but my all nighters as a junior were not within my control. If I was billing 400+ hours a month, I was mostly just trying to survive, and the all nighters (or double all nighters) were due to sheer volume of work rather than procrastination/poor time management.

I 100% agree about establishing good habits, though.

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by SmokeytheBear » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:16 pm

quiver wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:15 pm
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:52 am
Just chiming in to comment on someone's previous comment that a lot of the reasons for all nighters or weight gain was due to poor time management.

This is very, very true.

As a junior, your schedule isn't really yours, but if you solidify good habits during 3L or your bar study, it will be easier to carry them over to work. Start running every morning--even if it's just 30 minutes. Find a gym by your office so you can pop in their during lunch or after you ship some docs. Make working out part of your routine as early as possible so it makes it harder to break the habit while working.
Eh, I think this depends on the person/schedule. Obviously this is specific to me, but my all nighters as a junior were not within my control. If I was billing 400+ hours a month, I was mostly just trying to survive, and the all nighters (or double all nighters) were due to sheer volume of work rather than procrastination/poor time management.

I 100% agree about establishing good habits, though.
400+ hours per month?

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quiver
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by quiver » Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:20 pm

SmokeytheBear wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:16 pm
quiver wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:15 pm
SmokeytheBear wrote:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:52 am
Just chiming in to comment on someone's previous comment that a lot of the reasons for all nighters or weight gain was due to poor time management.

This is very, very true.

As a junior, your schedule isn't really yours, but if you solidify good habits during 3L or your bar study, it will be easier to carry them over to work. Start running every morning--even if it's just 30 minutes. Find a gym by your office so you can pop in their during lunch or after you ship some docs. Make working out part of your routine as early as possible so it makes it harder to break the habit while working.
Eh, I think this depends on the person/schedule. Obviously this is specific to me, but my all nighters as a junior were not within my control. If I was billing 400+ hours a month, I was mostly just trying to survive, and the all nighters (or double all nighters) were due to sheer volume of work rather than procrastination/poor time management.

I 100% agree about establishing good habits, though.
400+ hours per month?
Yeah, I had one year with a few months of 400+ billables. It was not out of the ordinary for my team at the time and it was . . . unpleasant.

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Slippin’ Jimmy
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by Slippin’ Jimmy » Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:41 pm

What are your strategies for paying off student debt while in biglaw? Super aggressive, or do you follow the standard 10 year plan? Anyone hoping to move into a PSLF eligible job after a biglaw stint?

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HelloYesThisIsDog
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by HelloYesThisIsDog » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:53 pm

Slippin’ Jimmy wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:41 pm
What are your strategies for paying off student debt while in biglaw? Super aggressive, or do you follow the standard 10 year plan? Anyone hoping to move into a PSLF eligible job after a biglaw stint?
Currently 10 year plan, working on improving my credit with other debts before I consider refinancing. Possibility of seeking PSLF job also holding me back from refinancing. Other folks who are 3rd and 4th+ years at my firm refinanced, but they seem to be going for long term roles, as far as becoming a senior associate when they would have paid it off under a refinancing.

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Johannes
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by Johannes » Wed Jul 11, 2018 12:04 am

1 million or bust (household student loan debt)

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bk1
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by bk1 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:15 am

Slippin’ Jimmy wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:41 pm
What are your strategies for paying off student debt while in biglaw? Super aggressive, or do you follow the standard 10 year plan? Anyone hoping to move into a PSLF eligible job after a biglaw stint?
refi b/c i am an insane person

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by SmokeytheBear » Wed Jul 11, 2018 1:37 am

Slippin’ Jimmy wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:41 pm
What are your strategies for paying off student debt while in biglaw? Super aggressive, or do you follow the standard 10 year plan? Anyone hoping to move into a PSLF eligible job after a biglaw stint?
Super aggressive. You don’t want to have to do biglaw longer than is necessary, unless you realize it’s your thing.

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quiver
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by quiver » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:17 pm

Slippin’ Jimmy wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 7:41 pm
What are your strategies for paying off student debt while in biglaw? Super aggressive, or do you follow the standard 10 year plan? Anyone hoping to move into a PSLF eligible job after a biglaw stint?
Paid as little as possible then moved to PSLF job.

itsbertmacklin
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by itsbertmacklin » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:15 pm

Are post-grad PI 1yr fellowships in conflict with big law? For example, my school sometimes sends folks to the International Court of Justice for a 9-month fellowship. Is that on a completely different track than the 2L OCI-3L return offer folks or is it possible to do a fellowship/clerkship like that for down the road, and then go back to the return offer?

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SmokeytheBear
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by SmokeytheBear » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:06 pm

itsbertmacklin wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:15 pm
Are post-grad PI 1yr fellowships in conflict with big law? For example, my school sometimes sends folks to the International Court of Justice for a 9-month fellowship. Is that on a completely different track than the 2L OCI-3L return offer folks or is it possible to do a fellowship/clerkship like that for down the road, and then go back to the return offer?
Yeah I can’t imagine too many firms would be jazzed about this. If you have top grades from HYS and the firm is super into you, maybe. But asking the firm to do this after you’ve presumably already accepted your offer is not a good look.

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beep
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by beep » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:46 am

Maybe if you could pitch the ICJ as a clerkship? That sounds pretty sweet

thegrandbudapest1
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by thegrandbudapest1 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:07 am

What happens when you get sick while working on a big deal as a corporate associate? Do you get to take sick leave and come back and work to death, or are you expected to keep working?

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North
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by North » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:22 am

thegrandbudapest1 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:07 am
What happens when you get sick while working on a big deal as a corporate associate? Do you get to take sick leave and come back and work to death, or are you expected to keep working?
IME, you buy some dayquil and keep working.

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barkschool
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by barkschool » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:48 pm

North wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:22 am
thegrandbudapest1 wrote:
Sat Jul 14, 2018 5:07 am
What happens when you get sick while working on a big deal as a corporate associate? Do you get to take sick leave and come back and work to death, or are you expected to keep working?
IME, you buy some dayquil and keep working.
I once told a partner that another associate headed home because they were sick. The response “you can be sick at your desk.”

thegrandbudapest1
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by thegrandbudapest1 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 7:58 am

Haha, nice :’(

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North
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by North » Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:12 am

I once had to jump in and close a deal for someone who got the flu. It was horrible and I'm still mad about it.

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HelloYesThisIsDog
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Re: So you think you want BigLaw?

Post by HelloYesThisIsDog » Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:26 am

North wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 10:12 am
I once had to jump in and close a deal for someone who got the flu. It was horrible and I'm still mad about it.
Who are you mad at? Hopefully not the person with the flu, who obviously had no choice in contracting a serious illness.

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