July 2018 California Bar Exam

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KernKraft
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by KernKraft » Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:23 pm

Opoponax wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:17 am
Welp, I'm fucking burnt out. Just wanted to say that. Anyway...

I think I'm going to do the PT first during the afternoon session. I'd kicked this idea around before, but didn't do it. However, after a practice PT yesterday in which another 10 minutes would've given me a significantly better score, I think I'm gonna go ahead and knock it out before doing the essays. Always during the last 5 minutes or so, I find myself rushing to get everything in, hastily trying to reorganize, etc, and not once has that ever turned out well for me.

Yesterday, during a practice PT, I had just about everything there that the model answer said should be in there, but it was kind of all over the place. Another 10 minutes would've made a big difference. Also, I can do almost any essay in 55 minutes and if I am rushing at the end, it's usually to add in minor points, or more often, I'm being too verbose; and the PT is weighted heavier than the essays.

It seems like a no-brainer, but if I was so damn smart I wouldn't be retaking this damn thing. Any thoughts are appreciated.
Don't say you aren't smart because you have to retake this stupid exam that has nothing to do with intelligence. It's just a tricky test under time pressure that tests things in a way that will never have any practical use in real life. We retakers may be bar-stupid but that doesn't mean that we lack the type of intelligence useful in real life. There are people that can solve the Rubik's cube in a few seconds. They may be very smart at memorizing a bunch of different algorithms and be able to move their hands really quickly, but are they smart? Maybe, or maybe they are just Rubik's-cube-smart and complete idiot's in a lot of other things.

Sorry for the rant, but I'm kind of burnt out too by now and this reminded me of somebody who once told me that "if somebody fails the bar exam 5 times he must be so stupid". And the best part is that she is like a salesperson or some other dumbass job where the hardest test she had to take was probably a drug test.

Anyway, now that we established that we are probably all smart, let's get down to the PT thing. I agree with doing it first too for basically the same reasons. PTs are easier points (and double) than essays' and, as you said, the last minutes of an essay are minor issues, where the last minutes of a PT can make the difference between a good-looking PT compared to a meh PT, which I wouldn't be surprised if it could matter even 10-15 points. Even hitting the same issues.

Opoponax
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by Opoponax » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:39 pm

Thanks. :)

I don't know where I got lost along the way with the PT, but I really kicked ass on them in bar prep the first time around. It was the one thing I considered myself to be "naturally" good at. In my job, I get paid to write P&A's, declarations, etc. I've been published, and edited other people's work that got published. I can write--I know my way around the written word. But the PT has just gone to shit for me. I have to be overthinking the damn thing. Tomorrow will be a simpler approach.

From the model answers on the bar's website it looks like the winning formula is:

I. Introduction where the issues are introduced (I wonder if this garners a lot of points right off the bat)
II. Potential oddball instruction (e.g. "Make findings of fact in single sentences only" or "Write a letter to Judge/Client/Other Attorney"). Then it's all about the:
III. "Legal Analysis"/Issue 1
IV. "Legal Analysis"/Issue 2
V. Conclusion

It should never vary from the above format. Not that that's a great mystery; it's more of a reminder to myself than anything else.

Also though, in looking at the model answers, it's difficult to believe any of them were done in 90 minutes or less. I suppose typing speed can help though. Both from this past February and last July are around the 1800-2100 word mark.

Enough. Time to work on Cal distinctions for the rest of the day.

Thanks again for the words of encouragement. I do appreciate it.

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KernKraft
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by KernKraft » Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:50 am

Of course, we are all on the same boat! And I seriously doubt that between 50% and 70% of the people who apply for the CA Bar (who will fail) aren't smart.

Anyway, I agree with the PT strategy. It's basically an IRAC where the issue is what they ask you in the task memo, rule from the library, analysis from the whole file, and a 2 line conclusion. And obviously decide the tone (objective/subjective) and audience. You probably got lost in the PTs because of the time pressure and the fact that it's a fake situation. You are used to do real life writing so this may be asking somebody good at swimming to be good at a swimming video game. It's not that immediate.

Also, I wonder too if the presentation of the issue gives a substantial amount of points. I'd say that if it doesn't it's still crucial in positively biasing the reader. If they see that in the first line you already misinterpreted the task memo they are probably going to go medieval on your PT.

justanotheruser
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by justanotheruser » Tue Jul 17, 2018 3:22 pm

Something I found helpful:

Halfway into the PT -- after I had set up my outline and had the general big picture in mind -- I took about 5-10 minutes to immediately work on the conclusion. The conclusion won't be a make-or-break thing, but getting it out of the way early instead of scrambling to write 1-2 sentences in the last 10 seconds might be worth a few points.
KernKraft wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 10:50 am
Of course, we are all on the same boat! And I seriously doubt that between 50% and 70% of the people who apply for the CA Bar (who will fail) aren't smart.

Anyway, I agree with the PT strategy. It's basically an IRAC where the issue is what they ask you in the task memo, rule from the library, analysis from the whole file, and a 2 line conclusion. And obviously decide the tone (objective/subjective) and audience. You probably got lost in the PTs because of the time pressure and the fact that it's a fake situation. You are used to do real life writing so this may be asking somebody good at swimming to be good at a swimming video game. It's not that immediate.

Also, I wonder too if the presentation of the issue gives a substantial amount of points. I'd say that if it doesn't it's still crucial in positively biasing the reader. If they see that in the first line you already misinterpreted the task memo they are probably going to go medieval on your PT.

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KernKraft
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by KernKraft » Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:33 pm

Absolutely agree with it! I usually even start the conclusory sentence and leave it at the bottom. That’s the cherry on top for being responsive. Together with the beginning of the PT it’s probably the easiest point-awarding part of the PT.

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LoganCouture
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by LoganCouture » Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:00 pm

Weird Q but I've never used Examplify before. Does the alarm feature work during the exam?

Opoponax
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by Opoponax » Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:08 am

LoganCouture wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:00 pm
Weird Q but I've never used Examplify before. Does the alarm feature work during the exam?
I don't know. I just bring a watch and practice that way. I have no faith that anything in the software is going to work properly, so it's best to avoid counting on it.

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KernKraft
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by KernKraft » Wed Jul 18, 2018 11:21 am

Opoponax wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 12:08 am
LoganCouture wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:00 pm
Weird Q but I've never used Examplify before. Does the alarm feature work during the exam?
I don't know. I just bring a watch and practice that way. I have no faith that anything in the software is going to work properly, so it's best to avoid counting on it.
I used it last time and, even if I don't remember why, I remember something going wrong with the alarm. Maybe it alerts you for like 2 seconds so you may missi it. Really don't remember, but I'll bring the same MBE table clock for the essays if allowed in the bulletin.

justanotheruser
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by justanotheruser » Wed Jul 18, 2018 2:19 pm

It's an improvement over ExamSoft IMO. The flashing red/yellow is a lot more noticeable. But the problem is always that I'd notice it and continue to work on the essay at hand. It all comes down to your discipline and how much you've practiced time management.
LoganCouture wrote:
Tue Jul 17, 2018 7:00 pm
Weird Q but I've never used Examplify before. Does the alarm feature work during the exam?

JakeTapper
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by JakeTapper » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:13 pm

On the other end of the "prediction spectrum," does anyone have any thoughts or seen any predictions elsewhere (or compiled them) on what the least likely topics are? And yes, I am coping on this last weekend and considering gambling a bit. But I presume at least a few are unlikely.

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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by Opoponax » Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:54 am

I love the prediction game. It lets me talk about the bar exam, yet be wholly unproductive while doing so. Here's mine:

1. Conlaw
2. Civ Pro (most likely Fed)
3. Evidence (fed)
4. Business Associations/PR crossover
5. UCC with the primary focus being on remedies

But really, who knows? Crim, Real Property, and Wills are likely right out. But the real property essay in February wasn't a traditional real property essay. It did deal with issues that happen on property, but it wasn't something anyone could've predicted or prepared for. Still though, it's less likely than any of the subjects that weren't tested.

On the matter of crossovers and triple crossovers, at least we know they're going to do that now. The Committee of Bar Examiners will not be denied their sadistic desire to test as many subjects as they want on the bar exam, regardless of the number of essays. So some essay e.g. with contracts, PR, and civ pro is certainly possible.

I do expect more traditional types of essays this time. I can't say why, but I just do. It seems like the July essays get less batshit than the February ones.

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KernKraft
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by KernKraft » Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:53 pm

Opoponax wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:54 am
[...]
I do expect more traditional types of essays this time. I can't say why, but I just do. It seems like the July essays get less batshit than the February ones.
Probably because they need to bash on those "lazy february low-tier repeaters" to show that the bar exam is not becomign more difficult, it's the millennials' fault. You know, those people who are entering the most competitive job-market in history.

Anyway, I seriously hope for the predictions you just made compared to all the other ones lol.

Opoponax
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by Opoponax » Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:52 pm

KernKraft wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 9:53 pm
Opoponax wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 11:54 am
[...]
I do expect more traditional types of essays this time. I can't say why, but I just do. It seems like the July essays get less batshit than the February ones.
Probably because they need to bash on those "lazy february low-tier repeaters" to show that the bar exam is not becomign more difficult, it's the millennials' fault. You know, those people who are entering the most competitive job-market in history.

Anyway, I seriously hope for the predictions you just made compared to all the other ones lol.
Yeah. They have the February bloodbath and then follow it up with something less awful in July. Then they can say, "See! Scores improved by 22%!", while no longer counting the people who don't finish the exam. The disingenuous of the Committee of Bar Examiners is galling.

Bah, whatever. Once we pass, we'll never have to worry about them again... Actually, I have a burning desire to sue them for something some day. Maybe that'll go away in November, but I'm good at carrying a grudge.

As for predictions, I suddenly had a mini panic attack that led to me creating and then writing essays for Murder and conspiracy. It was kind of a nice exercise and not totally a waste of time since it's an MBE subject too.

But there's still shit lingering out there for me; proxy voting, the 14AM P&I Clause, interlocutory appeals, community property (I've written three essays, but that's it). I've developed totally half-assed rules for Periera and Van Camp, but that subject's lacking. And if RealProperty does come up, gah.

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KernKraft
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by KernKraft » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:48 am

Opoponax wrote:
Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:52 pm
...They have the February bloodbath and then follow it up with something less awful in July. Then they can say, "See! Scores improved by 22%!", while no longer counting the people who don't finish the exam. The disingenuous of the Committee of Bar Examiners is galling.

Bah, whatever. Once we pass, we'll never have to worry about them again... Actually, I have a burning desire to sue them for something some day. Maybe that'll go away in November, but I'm good at carrying a grudge.
We have a lot in common lol. I’m actually amazed about the fact that not as many people as I expected express their anger about the CA bar/NCBE sadism. And I was still hoping for a decrease in the cut score. Sigh.

JakeTapper
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by JakeTapper » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:08 am

How nuts would it be to not study future estates? I just haven’t thus far and feel like rolling the dice considering the risk reward of it all.

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KernKraft
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by KernKraft » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:36 pm

JakeTapper wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:08 am
How nuts would it be to not study future estates? I just haven’t thus far and feel like rolling the dice considering the risk reward of it all.
In the last 3 bar exams I don’t recall running into them at all. Not even a single MBE question (maybe just life estates). Now I basically know life estates and waste/fixture but that’s it.

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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by Opoponax » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:45 pm

JakeTapper wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:08 am
How nuts would it be to not study future estates? I just haven’t thus far and feel like rolling the dice considering the risk reward of it all.
Not that I recommend what I've chosen to do, but for Whatever...

I learned the hell out of fee simple determinable. That's it. The amount of time it takes to memorize the language, the sheer number of possibilities, combined with the long and confusing way such questions are often asked, and throw in the Rule Against Perpetuities, and you can spend hours and hours trying to learn and then retain information that's going to consist of what, maybe 4-5 questions on the MBE at the very most?

Yes, every right answer truly matters; I'm not going to debate that. However, in the time it takes to truly nail that stuff down (for me anyway), I could instead shore up my knowledge about 2 or more other topics in Real Property: deeds, mortgages, foreclosures, easements, covenants, notice statutes, landlord/tenant etc.

So yeah, it's even conceivable that we may see only one or two of those types of questions.

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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by JakeTapper » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:02 pm

JakeTapper wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:08 am
How nuts would it be to not study future estates? I just haven’t thus far and feel like rolling the dice considering the risk reward of it all.
I should’ve also said, I’m only taking the essays. Which seems to only bolster what has already been said.

I’ve done 5 past exams today and there’s not a single essay I would’ve gotten a failing score on. Until I ran into a Tort remedies one today with the trusts and everything - and I would’ve gotten like nothing. Worried about similarly sitting down on Tuesday and reading “to a for life”

Opoponax
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by Opoponax » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:12 pm

KernKraft wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:48 am
We have a lot in common lol. I’m actually amazed about the fact that not as many people as I expected express their anger about the CA bar/NCBE sadism. And I was still hoping for a decrease in the cut score. Sigh.
I felt much more comfortable pointing out the bullshit of the CBE after it was revealed they'd stopped counting those who didn't finish the exam. And most lawyers think the bar exam is b.s. too. The fact that California takers routinely have the highest scores on the MBE, but the highest failure right is telling too. When an essay score can be downgraded e.g. from an 80 to a 60, something's seriously wrong.

But whatever. Barring several out of far left field essay topics, I think I'm gonna pass this time. Then I can go on my search for aggrieved people who have been oppressed by the CBE. Or maybe I just drop the whole thing and get on with life. :)

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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by ymmv » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:18 pm

Memorizing all the property terminology bullshit ain’t worth it as long as you know enough of the fundamentals to get the MBE questions.

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KernKraft
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by KernKraft » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:28 pm

Opoponax wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:12 pm
KernKraft wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:48 am
We have a lot in common lol. I’m actually amazed about the fact that not as many people as I expected express their anger about the CA bar/NCBE sadism. And I was still hoping for a decrease in the cut score. Sigh.
I felt much more comfortable pointing out the bullshit of the CBE after it was revealed they'd stopped counting those who didn't finish the exam. And most lawyers think the bar exam is b.s. too. The fact that California takers routinely have the highest scores on the MBE, but the highest failure right is telling too. When an essay score can be downgraded e.g. from an 80 to a 60, something's seriously wrong.

But whatever. Barring several out of far left field essay topics, I think I'm gonna pass this time. Then I can go on my search for aggrieved people who have been oppressed by the CBE. Or maybe I just drop the whole thing and get on with life. :)
According the the CA State Bar, who fails the CBX is incapable. Pass rates are dropping because applicants are worse. They explicitly, repeatedly said that. A good chunk of the people who fail the CBX get a score that would allow them to practice anywhere else. So, according to the CA State Bar, unless you pass the CBX, or get a 1440 in the jurisdiction where you passed, you shouldn't be a lawyer because you are not minimally competent. If that was true, there would be a difference in lawyers sued for malpractice/disbarred in jurisdictions with a lower cut score. There is not, it's been shown in those trial by countless witnesses. It would be much better for their reputations if they just told the truth. "We really have to do this because everybody wants to move to California and practice here. Please, allow us to put a cap on this number of lawyers." But no, they just don't give a shit. Sad. Hopefully in November this will just be a bad memory and we will be able to have won their little power game.

JakeTapper
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by JakeTapper » Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:54 pm

So, the website is down and can't print my ticket. Guessing this is not uncommon with this shit show?

FinallyPassedTheBar
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by FinallyPassedTheBar » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:05 pm

Opoponax wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:12 pm


I felt much more comfortable pointing out the bullshit of the CBE after it was revealed they'd stopped counting those who didn't finish the exam. And most lawyers think the bar exam is b.s. too. The fact that California takers routinely have the highest scores on the MBE, but the highest failure right is telling too. When an essay score can be downgraded e.g. from an 80 to a 60, something's seriously wrong.

But whatever. Barring several out of far left field essay topics, I think I'm gonna pass this time. Then I can go on my search for aggrieved people who have been oppressed by the CBE. Or maybe I just drop the whole thing and get on with life. :)

Last summer when I was studying on baressays.com, I came across an essay that I had encountered on a previous exam. The bar scored that essay a 75. Yet, the bar only gave me a 55! And I covered every single issue in the same IRAC format, with headings, as the 75 essay!!!!

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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by ymmv » Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:07 pm

JakeTapper wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:54 pm
So, the website is down and can't print my ticket. Guessing this is not uncommon with this shit show?
It’s real great!

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KernKraft
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Re: July 2018 California Bar Exam

Post by KernKraft » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:50 pm

JakeTapper wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:54 pm
So, the website is down and can't print my ticket. Guessing this is not uncommon with this shit show?
Same here. They sent us a reminder email to print our ticket, which we can't print. I really wonder what kind of childhood these people had.

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