Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

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EFGH
4
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2
17%
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6
50%
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Total votes: 12

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Walliums
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by Walliums » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:23 am

I should probably update the poll...I hope everyone is having a lovely summer!

And PSA if you haven't paid your second deposit yet, it's due today.

AlbertParsons
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:02 pm

Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by AlbertParsons » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:24 am

Did they send this last deferment email to everyone? Is anyone thinking of taking it?

trkmaniak00
Posts: 31
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:44 am

Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by trkmaniak00 » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:31 am

AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:24 am
Did they send this last deferment email to everyone? Is anyone thinking of taking it?
Looks like it. I've planned my last year around going in the fall so I don't have another option. I might lazily look if there is anything that catches my eye for a year but I doubt it. I think based on their previous emails that if 85% aren't kjds that most people have probably made arrange,ends to go now.

Is anyone else a bit nervous about a bigger class? Michigans class size is already on the higher side so this added strain on fellowships, clinics, and ultimately job opportunities seems a bit frightening. Of course I'm no expert, anyone have thoughts?

ekiki
Posts: 858
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:16 pm

Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by ekiki » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:35 am

trkmaniak00 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:31 am
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:24 am
Did they send this last deferment email to everyone? Is anyone thinking of taking it?
Looks like it. I've planned my last year around going in the fall so I don't have another option. I might lazily look if there is anything that catches my eye for a year but I doubt it. I think based on their previous emails that if 85% aren't kjds that most people have probably made arrange,ends to go now.

Is anyone else a bit nervous about a bigger class? Michigans class size is already on the higher side so this added strain on fellowships, clinics, and ultimately job opportunities seems a bit frightening. Of course I'm no expert, anyone have thoughts?
I’m not worried about it honestly. Sure there will be more of us but the email said we won’t be missing out in opportunities based on class size

AlbertParsons
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:02 pm

Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by AlbertParsons » Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:48 am

Spoiler:
ekiki wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:35 am
trkmaniak00 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:31 am
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:24 am
Did they send this last deferment email to everyone? Is anyone thinking of taking it?
Looks like it. I've planned my last year around going in the fall so I don't have another option. I might lazily look if there is anything that catches my eye for a year but I doubt it. I think based on their previous emails that if 85% aren't kjds that most people have probably made arrange,ends to go now.

Is anyone else a bit nervous about a bigger class? Michigans class size is already on the higher side so this added strain on fellowships, clinics, and ultimately job opportunities seems a bit frightening. Of course I'm no expert, anyone have thoughts?
I’m not worried about it honestly. Sure there will be more of us but the email said we won’t be missing out in opportunities based on class size
i mean shouldn't we be thought? especially for big law/clerkships? i thought the conventional wisdom was that Michigan's improving job numbers have been in part due to a smaller class size?

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blueapple
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by blueapple » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:30 pm

don't take this as gospel, but from what i understand, michigan had been aiming to decrease class size further. so there won't be X many more people than last year's class (I don't know what the email said about how many more people accepted their michigan offer than expected or whatever), but rather X many more people than whatever the aim had been. so it might be bigger than last year's 1L class but maybe not as much bigger as you're thinking.

and who knows maybe people will defer

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Walliums
Posts: 391
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by Walliums » Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:18 pm

AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:48 am
Spoiler:
ekiki wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:35 am
trkmaniak00 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:31 am
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:24 am
Did they send this last deferment email to everyone? Is anyone thinking of taking it?
Looks like it. I've planned my last year around going in the fall so I don't have another option. I might lazily look if there is anything that catches my eye for a year but I doubt it. I think based on their previous emails that if 85% aren't kjds that most people have probably made arrange,ends to go now.

Is anyone else a bit nervous about a bigger class? Michigans class size is already on the higher side so this added strain on fellowships, clinics, and ultimately job opportunities seems a bit frightening. Of course I'm no expert, anyone have thoughts?
I’m not worried about it honestly. Sure there will be more of us but the email said we won’t be missing out in opportunities based on class size
i mean shouldn't we be thought? especially for big law/clerkships? i thought the conventional wisdom was that Michigan's improving job numbers have been in part due to a smaller class size?
I mean we don't know exactly what is going on. It could very well be that Michigan has a larger than expected class because folks are choosing them over other T-14 schools. There still may be the same number of biglaw jobs/people who want biglaw, but the people are shifting around (e.g. a higher percentage of that pool ended up picking Michigan).

Also we don't know how many people really do want biglaw in this class (it could very well be there is a significantly higher PI/gov bent in this class).

And in terms of other concerns, what's to say that they wouldn't increase clinic sizes by a few seats?

I don't think there is a real point in worrying right now. And we're at a point where, if you really do have serious concerns, call the admissions office and ask them.

AlbertParsons
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:02 pm

Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by AlbertParsons » Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:22 pm

Spoiler:
Walliums wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:18 pm
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:48 am
Spoiler:
ekiki wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:35 am
trkmaniak00 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:31 am
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:24 am
Did they send this last deferment email to everyone? Is anyone thinking of taking it?
Looks like it. I've planned my last year around going in the fall so I don't have another option. I might lazily look if there is anything that catches my eye for a year but I doubt it. I think based on their previous emails that if 85% aren't kjds that most people have probably made arrange,ends to go now.

Is anyone else a bit nervous about a bigger class? Michigans class size is already on the higher side so this added strain on fellowships, clinics, and ultimately job opportunities seems a bit frightening. Of course I'm no expert, anyone have thoughts?
I’m not worried about it honestly. Sure there will be more of us but the email said we won’t be missing out in opportunities based on class size
i mean shouldn't we be thought? especially for big law/clerkships? i thought the conventional wisdom was that Michigan's improving job numbers have been in part due to a smaller class size?
I mean we don't know exactly what is going on. It could very well be that Michigan has a larger than expected class because folks are choosing them over other T-14 schools. There still may be the same number of biglaw jobs/people who want biglaw, but the people are shifting around (e.g. a higher percentage of that pool ended up picking Michigan).

Also we don't know how many people really do want biglaw in this class (it could very well be there is a significantly higher PI/gov bent in this class).

And in terms of other concerns, what's to say that they wouldn't increase clinic sizes by a few seats?

I don't think there is a real point in worrying right now. And we're at a point where, if you really do have serious concerns, call the admissions office and ask them.
Sorry if my post came off a little over dramatic. I guess my personality portends towards the calamitous lol. Hopefully we see a healthy amount of deferment/strong PI focus as a result of the Trump effect. And to be clear, I don't worry about class offerings or clinic availability. I'm sure that they would accomodate for a larger class size by having increased sections, etc and we would love our time at Michigan law. My worry would be for employment and the prospects of bidding at median. I mean employer demands are not going to be reactive to an increased student population, right? (more asking) I hope blueapple's post is more gospel than rumor, although Dean Z mentioned that this was the size of their incoming class for many, many years which I think was 375+.

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Hey_Everybody
Posts: 477
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by Hey_Everybody » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:08 pm

AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:22 pm
Spoiler:
Walliums wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:18 pm
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:48 am
Spoiler:
ekiki wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:35 am
trkmaniak00 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:31 am
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:24 am
Did they send this last deferment email to everyone? Is anyone thinking of taking it?
Looks like it. I've planned my last year around going in the fall so I don't have another option. I might lazily look if there is anything that catches my eye for a year but I doubt it. I think based on their previous emails that if 85% aren't kjds that most people have probably made arrange,ends to go now.

Is anyone else a bit nervous about a bigger class? Michigans class size is already on the higher side so this added strain on fellowships, clinics, and ultimately job opportunities seems a bit frightening. Of course I'm no expert, anyone have thoughts?
I’m not worried about it honestly. Sure there will be more of us but the email said we won’t be missing out in opportunities based on class size
i mean shouldn't we be thought? especially for big law/clerkships? i thought the conventional wisdom was that Michigan's improving job numbers have been in part due to a smaller class size?
I mean we don't know exactly what is going on. It could very well be that Michigan has a larger than expected class because folks are choosing them over other T-14 schools. There still may be the same number of biglaw jobs/people who want biglaw, but the people are shifting around (e.g. a higher percentage of that pool ended up picking Michigan).

Also we don't know how many people really do want biglaw in this class (it could very well be there is a significantly higher PI/gov bent in this class).

And in terms of other concerns, what's to say that they wouldn't increase clinic sizes by a few seats?

I don't think there is a real point in worrying right now. And we're at a point where, if you really do have serious concerns, call the admissions office and ask them.
Sorry if my post came off a little over dramatic. I guess my personality portends towards the calamitous lol. Hopefully we see a healthy amount of deferment/strong PI focus as a result of the Trump effect. And to be clear, I don't worry about class offerings or clinic availability. I'm sure that they would accomodate for a larger class size by having increased sections, etc and we would love our time at Michigan law. My worry would be for employment and the prospects of bidding at median. I mean employer demands are not going to be reactive to an increased student population, right? (more asking) I hope blueapple's post is more gospel than rumor, although Dean Z mentioned that this was the size of their incoming class for many, many years which I think was 375+.
Yeah, I mean to be honest I think this is not good. There's a reason they cut the class size, too many people weren't getting jobs. But what can we do at this point? (Other than defer, which isn't really an option for me given that I've already put in notice at my job, signed a lease, etc.) Just going to have to make the best of it.

ekiki
Posts: 858
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:16 pm

Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by ekiki » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:09 pm

AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:22 pm
Spoiler:
Walliums wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:18 pm
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:48 am
Spoiler:
ekiki wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:35 am
trkmaniak00 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:31 am
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:24 am
Did they send this last deferment email to everyone? Is anyone thinking of taking it?
Looks like it. I've planned my last year around going in the fall so I don't have another option. I might lazily look if there is anything that catches my eye for a year but I doubt it. I think based on their previous emails that if 85% aren't kjds that most people have probably made arrange,ends to go now.

Is anyone else a bit nervous about a bigger class? Michigans class size is already on the higher side so this added strain on fellowships, clinics, and ultimately job opportunities seems a bit frightening. Of course I'm no expert, anyone have thoughts?
I’m not worried about it honestly. Sure there will be more of us but the email said we won’t be missing out in opportunities based on class size
i mean shouldn't we be thought? especially for big law/clerkships? i thought the conventional wisdom was that Michigan's improving job numbers have been in part due to a smaller class size?
I mean we don't know exactly what is going on. It could very well be that Michigan has a larger than expected class because folks are choosing them over other T-14 schools. There still may be the same number of biglaw jobs/people who want biglaw, but the people are shifting around (e.g. a higher percentage of that pool ended up picking Michigan).

Also we don't know how many people really do want biglaw in this class (it could very well be there is a significantly higher PI/gov bent in this class).

And in terms of other concerns, what's to say that they wouldn't increase clinic sizes by a few seats?

I don't think there is a real point in worrying right now. And we're at a point where, if you really do have serious concerns, call the admissions office and ask them.
Sorry if my post came off a little over dramatic. I guess my personality portends towards the calamitous lol. Hopefully we see a healthy amount of deferment/strong PI focus as a result of the Trump effect. And to be clear, I don't worry about class offerings or clinic availability. I'm sure that they would accomodate for a larger class size by having increased sections, etc and we would love our time at Michigan law. My worry would be for employment and the prospects of bidding at median. I mean employer demands are not going to be reactive to an increased student population, right? (more asking) I hope blueapple's post is more gospel than rumor, although Dean Z mentioned that this was the size of their incoming class for many, many years which I think was 375+.
Michigan’s employment numbers have always been great. If you look LST reports, they’ve always been very high, and even higher than other t14 schools. I have some current Michigan law friends and the consensus is that nobody graduates without a job unless that’s their prerogative. We will be fine. :)

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Hey_Everybody
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by Hey_Everybody » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:27 pm

ekiki wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:09 pm
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:22 pm
Spoiler:
Walliums wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:18 pm
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:48 am
Spoiler:
ekiki wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:35 am
trkmaniak00 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:31 am
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:24 am
Did they send this last deferment email to everyone? Is anyone thinking of taking it?
Looks like it. I've planned my last year around going in the fall so I don't have another option. I might lazily look if there is anything that catches my eye for a year but I doubt it. I think based on their previous emails that if 85% aren't kjds that most people have probably made arrange,ends to go now.

Is anyone else a bit nervous about a bigger class? Michigans class size is already on the higher side so this added strain on fellowships, clinics, and ultimately job opportunities seems a bit frightening. Of course I'm no expert, anyone have thoughts?
I’m not worried about it honestly. Sure there will be more of us but the email said we won’t be missing out in opportunities based on class size
i mean shouldn't we be thought? especially for big law/clerkships? i thought the conventional wisdom was that Michigan's improving job numbers have been in part due to a smaller class size?
I mean we don't know exactly what is going on. It could very well be that Michigan has a larger than expected class because folks are choosing them over other T-14 schools. There still may be the same number of biglaw jobs/people who want biglaw, but the people are shifting around (e.g. a higher percentage of that pool ended up picking Michigan).

Also we don't know how many people really do want biglaw in this class (it could very well be there is a significantly higher PI/gov bent in this class).

And in terms of other concerns, what's to say that they wouldn't increase clinic sizes by a few seats?

I don't think there is a real point in worrying right now. And we're at a point where, if you really do have serious concerns, call the admissions office and ask them.
Sorry if my post came off a little over dramatic. I guess my personality portends towards the calamitous lol. Hopefully we see a healthy amount of deferment/strong PI focus as a result of the Trump effect. And to be clear, I don't worry about class offerings or clinic availability. I'm sure that they would accomodate for a larger class size by having increased sections, etc and we would love our time at Michigan law. My worry would be for employment and the prospects of bidding at median. I mean employer demands are not going to be reactive to an increased student population, right? (more asking) I hope blueapple's post is more gospel than rumor, although Dean Z mentioned that this was the size of their incoming class for many, many years which I think was 375+.
Michigan’s employment numbers have always been great. If you look LST reports, they’ve always been very high, and even higher than other t14 schools. I have some current Michigan law friends and the consensus is that nobody graduates without a job unless that’s their prerogative. We will be fine. :)
Of course Michigan's employment numbers have always been pretty good, but they've gotten a lot better since they started cutting class size. LST shows a 15% better employment score and 8% less underemployment since 2011, when they started cutting class size. Obviously there are lots of other factors at play, but smaller classes definitely seem to have helped. And the idea that everyone at Michigan always gets a job is ludicrous. I agree that most of the class will be fine, but it wasn't all that long ago that there was a whole hubub about them putting around 75 students in school funded "post-grad fellowships" to hide that they were unemployed. Granted, that was at the height of the recession and hopefully things will be better than that for us, but it seems crazy to go around saying "nobody graduates without a job unless that’s their prerogative."

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oldbay+boh
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by oldbay+boh » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:56 pm

Does anyone know if other top schools are overcommitted? Given the fairly unanticipated bump, especially with top scores, I wouldn’t be surprised if other schools had higher-than-expected yields, though maybe Michigan is just the most forthcoming about it.

Edit: By overcommitted, I just mean in terms of expected yield/class size, not necessarily that resources will actually be limited as a result.

thuswindburn
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by thuswindburn » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:33 pm

oldbay+boh wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:56 pm
Does anyone know if other top schools are overcommitted? Given the fairly unanticipated bump, especially with top scores, I wouldn’t be surprised if other schools had higher-than-expected yields, though maybe Michigan is just the most forthcoming about it.

Edit: By overcommitted, I just mean in terms of expected yield/class size, not necessarily that resources will actually be limited as a result.
I’m wondering the same thing. Maybe a bunch of T13 admits just want to attend Michigan (I certainly did, but it was also the best move for me financially). Surely other T13s are running into similar issues though?

Iwanttolawschool
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:43 pm

Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by Iwanttolawschool » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:37 pm

Hey_Everybody wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:27 pm
ekiki wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:09 pm
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 3:22 pm
Spoiler:
Walliums wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 1:18 pm
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:48 am
Spoiler:
ekiki wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:35 am
trkmaniak00 wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:31 am
AlbertParsons wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:24 am
Did they send this last deferment email to everyone? Is anyone thinking of taking it?
Looks like it. I've planned my last year around going in the fall so I don't have another option. I might lazily look if there is anything that catches my eye for a year but I doubt it. I think based on their previous emails that if 85% aren't kjds that most people have probably made arrange,ends to go now.

Is anyone else a bit nervous about a bigger class? Michigans class size is already on the higher side so this added strain on fellowships, clinics, and ultimately job opportunities seems a bit frightening. Of course I'm no expert, anyone have thoughts?
I’m not worried about it honestly. Sure there will be more of us but the email said we won’t be missing out in opportunities based on class size
i mean shouldn't we be thought? especially for big law/clerkships? i thought the conventional wisdom was that Michigan's improving job numbers have been in part due to a smaller class size?
I mean we don't know exactly what is going on. It could very well be that Michigan has a larger than expected class because folks are choosing them over other T-14 schools. There still may be the same number of biglaw jobs/people who want biglaw, but the people are shifting around (e.g. a higher percentage of that pool ended up picking Michigan).

Also we don't know how many people really do want biglaw in this class (it could very well be there is a significantly higher PI/gov bent in this class).

And in terms of other concerns, what's to say that they wouldn't increase clinic sizes by a few seats?

I don't think there is a real point in worrying right now. And we're at a point where, if you really do have serious concerns, call the admissions office and ask them.
Sorry if my post came off a little over dramatic. I guess my personality portends towards the calamitous lol. Hopefully we see a healthy amount of deferment/strong PI focus as a result of the Trump effect. And to be clear, I don't worry about class offerings or clinic availability. I'm sure that they would accomodate for a larger class size by having increased sections, etc and we would love our time at Michigan law. My worry would be for employment and the prospects of bidding at median. I mean employer demands are not going to be reactive to an increased student population, right? (more asking) I hope blueapple's post is more gospel than rumor, although Dean Z mentioned that this was the size of their incoming class for many, many years which I think was 375+.
Michigan’s employment numbers have always been great. If you look LST reports, they’ve always been very high, and even higher than other t14 schools. I have some current Michigan law friends and the consensus is that nobody graduates without a job unless that’s their prerogative. We will be fine. :)
Of course Michigan's employment numbers have always been pretty good, but they've gotten a lot better since they started cutting class size. LST shows a 15% better employment score and 8% less underemployment since 2011, when they started cutting class size. Obviously there are lots of other factors at play, but smaller classes definitely seem to have helped. And the idea that everyone at Michigan always gets a job is ludicrous. I agree that most of the class will be fine, but it wasn't all that long ago that there was a whole hubub about them putting around 75 students in school funded "post-grad fellowships" to hide that they were unemployed. Granted, that was at the height of the recession and hopefully things will be better than that for us, but it seems crazy to go around saying "nobody graduates without a job unless that’s their prerogative."

The class size reduction is a minor factor compared to the improving legal market (2009 - 2012 were the worst ever). If all you want biglaw, don't stress Get roughly a 3.1 or higher and you're set. That would be like bottom 15% after 1L. Now if another recession happens this year (it's overdue) then things might be different.

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Hey_Everybody
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by Hey_Everybody » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:51 pm

Iwanttolawschool wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:37 pm
The class size reduction is a minor factor compared to the improving legal market (2009 - 2012 were the worst ever). If all you want biglaw, don't stress Get roughly a 3.1 or higher and you're set. That would be like bottom 15% after 1L. Now if another recession happens this year (it's overdue) then things might be different.
I hope you're right (although I don't want biglaw, so I don't particularly care about that aspect of things). I guess what worries me is that it seems as though that the administration itself thinks the class size reductions have been a big aspect of improving their employment numbers. Otherwise why would they be begging people to defer? If they thought it wouldn't hurt their employment stats wouldn't they be happy to get tuition from an extra 50 students? They obviously have the capacity to take on a bigger class if they need to. Seems like the only reason I can think of why they'd be encouraging deferral so strongly is that they're worried about the employment implications.

AlbertParsons
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:02 pm

Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by AlbertParsons » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:29 pm

Hey_Everybody wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:51 pm
Iwanttolawschool wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:37 pm
The class size reduction is a minor factor compared to the improving legal market (2009 - 2012 were the worst ever). If all you want biglaw, don't stress Get roughly a 3.1 or higher and you're set. That would be like bottom 15% after 1L. Now if another recession happens this year (it's overdue) then things might be different.
I hope you're right (although I don't want biglaw, so I don't particularly care about that aspect of things). I guess what worries me is that it seems as though that the administration itself thinks the class size reductions have been a big aspect of improving their employment numbers. Otherwise why would they be begging people to defer? If they thought it wouldn't hurt their employment stats wouldn't they be happy to get tuition from an extra 50 students? They obviously have the capacity to take on a bigger class if they need to. Seems like the only reason I can think of why they'd be encouraging deferral so strongly is that they're worried about the employment implications.
Perhaps its Trump PTSD, but when people put things in parenthesis it does not put me at ease lol. (Talking about their choice to reduce class size being a chose they made). The tone came off a little anxious, especially because they've already asked KJDs to defer.

I agree the recovering market has probably been a major factor on the improving job numbers. Are employers really delving that deeply into the class? I could be wrong but it seems that everything I read on TLS/LSL says median/above median you are good, but below, you are not going to have a good OCI.

For alums/students, would y'all mind sharing some of your OCI/hiring experience?

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blueapple
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by blueapple » Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:17 am

Hey_Everybody wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:51 pm
Iwanttolawschool wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:37 pm
The class size reduction is a minor factor compared to the improving legal market (2009 - 2012 were the worst ever). If all you want biglaw, don't stress Get roughly a 3.1 or higher and you're set. That would be like bottom 15% after 1L. Now if another recession happens this year (it's overdue) then things might be different.
I hope you're right (although I don't want biglaw, so I don't particularly care about that aspect of things). I guess what worries me is that it seems as though that the administration itself thinks the class size reductions have been a big aspect of improving their employment numbers. Otherwise why would they be begging people to defer? If they thought it wouldn't hurt their employment stats wouldn't they be happy to get tuition from an extra 50 students? They obviously have the capacity to take on a bigger class if they need to. Seems like the only reason I can think of why they'd be encouraging deferral so strongly is that they're worried about the employment implications.
I'm not sure why you think the administration thinks class size reductions have been a big aspect of improving employment numbers. Generally the assumption is that class size reduction is to help improve rankings, not employment numbers. Anyway, there are a lot of reasons to prefer smaller class sizes beyond employment indications. For starters, they've been moving to smaller class sizes so their resources are allocated for smaller class sizes. Smaller class sizes make for a better learning/teaching environment. Smaller class sizes allows admissions to be more selective and improve LSAT/GPA numbers for rankings. If the school can defer people who they already selected to next year's class, then they can get closer to their target class size and still keep those LSAT/GPA numbers to help with next years stats. Win/win.

Take some deep breaths. Public interest jobs have a lot more to do with external factors like the economy than any particular school's employment numbers.

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Hey_Everybody
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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by Hey_Everybody » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:06 am

blueapple wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:17 am
I'm not sure why you think the administration thinks class size reductions have been a big aspect of improving employment numbers. Generally the assumption is that class size reduction is to help improve rankings, not employment numbers. Anyway, there are a lot of reasons to prefer smaller class sizes beyond employment indications. For starters, they've been moving to smaller class sizes so their resources are allocated for smaller class sizes. Smaller class sizes make for a better learning/teaching environment. Smaller class sizes allows admissions to be more selective and improve LSAT/GPA numbers for rankings. If the school can defer people who they already selected to next year's class, then they can get closer to their target class size and still keep those LSAT/GPA numbers to help with next years stats. Win/win.

Take some deep breaths. Public interest jobs have a lot more to do with external factors like the economy than any particular school's employment numbers.
Well, I was mostly going off this article that said "In 2010, Sarah Zearfoss, director of admissions at the University of Michigan's law school, got a tip from an employee that she simply could not ignore. It was just two years after the housing crisis, and Zearfoss and her staff were concerned about the increasingly bleak job market for new lawyers. The advice, she thought, might help: Shrink the school.
'The single best thing we could do to help our students is to make the class size smaller,' Zearfoss said.
She began to set the plan in motion. Since 2011, Michigan's law school, considered one of the country's top institutions, has cut its first-year class by 26 percent." (http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 ... et-shrinks).
That was only written a couple of years ago, so as of pretty recently they were still thinking small class sizes were helping with employment. At the end of the day I'm sure you're right that there are other more important factors in getting a job and it probably won't have that dramatic an effect. I'm not exactly freaking out, just pointing out that realistically this probably isn't a great thing for the incoming class. Not a disaster by any means, but probably not ideal.

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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by blueapple » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:22 am

Hey_Everybody wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:06 am
blueapple wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:17 am
I'm not sure why you think the administration thinks class size reductions have been a big aspect of improving employment numbers. Generally the assumption is that class size reduction is to help improve rankings, not employment numbers. Anyway, there are a lot of reasons to prefer smaller class sizes beyond employment indications. For starters, they've been moving to smaller class sizes so their resources are allocated for smaller class sizes. Smaller class sizes make for a better learning/teaching environment. Smaller class sizes allows admissions to be more selective and improve LSAT/GPA numbers for rankings. If the school can defer people who they already selected to next year's class, then they can get closer to their target class size and still keep those LSAT/GPA numbers to help with next years stats. Win/win.

Take some deep breaths. Public interest jobs have a lot more to do with external factors like the economy than any particular school's employment numbers.
Well, I was mostly going off this article that said "In 2010, Sarah Zearfoss, director of admissions at the University of Michigan's law school, got a tip from an employee that she simply could not ignore. It was just two years after the housing crisis, and Zearfoss and her staff were concerned about the increasingly bleak job market for new lawyers. The advice, she thought, might help: Shrink the school.
'The single best thing we could do to help our students is to make the class size smaller,' Zearfoss said.
She began to set the plan in motion. Since 2011, Michigan's law school, considered one of the country's top institutions, has cut its first-year class by 26 percent." (http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 ... et-shrinks).
That was only written a couple of years ago, so as of pretty recently they were still thinking small class sizes were helping with employment. At the end of the day I'm sure you're right that there are other more important factors in getting a job and it probably won't have that dramatic an effect. I'm not exactly freaking out, just pointing out that realistically this probably isn't a great thing for the incoming class. Not a disaster by any means, but probably not ideal.
Got it -- I hadn't seen that article. But yeah there are many reasons for a smaller class size and I'm pretty sure most if not all top law schools have been shrinking class sizes for all the same reasons Michigan has. Obviously it's not ideal to have a larger class size, which is why law schools have been shrinking class sizes, but that doesn't mean one year with a larger-than-anticipated class size is going to change anything other than adding 10 more people to your big section.

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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by trkmaniak00 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:12 pm

Anybody else in the market for a new laptop or have suggestions? It’s been a long time since I’ve had to shop for one.

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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by AlbertParsons » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:09 pm

Acer Swift 3, 8th Gen Intel Core i5-8250U, NVIDIA GeForce MX150, 14" Full HD, 8GB LPDDR3, 256GB SSD, SF314-52G-55WQ

This is the computer I got. I steered away from the more expensive MacBooks as I don't think they are necessary. But if that's you're jam, go for it. You really won't go wrong as long as your budget is able to accommodate the price. The one thing to keep in mind is that the new MacBooks have very shallow keystrokes. For some this is not a big deal. I, however, find it really annoying and slows down my typing. I would say the things to keep in mind are portability and battery life. Happy to give opinion on a laptop if you want to post, but really not a big deal. Pretty much anything you get will suffice. The one big thing to keep in mind is that I'm pretty sure ChromeOS can't run the exam software used so do not buy a Chromebook

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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by blueapple » Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:29 pm

yeah i basically just recommend getting something light that won't bother you to carry around. right before law school (summer 2013) i bought whatever the smallest sized macbook air was at the time. i think it's 11". i just used it with a bluetooth keyboard/mouse and external monitor on my desk at home. i prefer macs to PCs for my personal computer, but there's no preferred OS for law school so just go with whatever you want (as long as it's not a chromebook, like albertparson said, or a tablet).

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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by trkmaniak00 » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:39 pm

blueapple wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 9:29 pm
yeah
AlbertParsons wrote:
Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:09 pm

This is the computer I got.
Thanks for the input. I've used Lenovo Thinkpads for the last 6 or so years so that was my first thought. I'm just technologically illiterate.

Its a bit on the heavy side but everything else looks good to me. Do either of you see anything glaringly wrong with it? Thanks!

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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by blueapple » Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:51 pm

trkmaniak00 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:39 pm
for my preferences it would be way too big/heavy to carry to and from class/campus every day, but I do know plenty of people who had laptops that size. if that's not going to be an issue for you, then this is definitely fine!

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Re: Michigan Law c/o 2021 (Admitted Students)

Post by AlbertParsons » Wed Jun 27, 2018 10:56 pm

blueapple wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 2:51 pm
trkmaniak00 wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:39 pm
for my preferences it would be way too big/heavy to carry to and from class/campus every day, but I do know plenty of people who had laptops that size. if that's not going to be an issue for you, then this is definitely fine!
yeah it seems a little big for me, but to each their own. also, just FYI in my experience lenovos, especially this one with a bigger screen fall far short of their advertised battery life. order it on amazon and try it out and return it if you're not happy

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