LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

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Expand view Topic review: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by BlendedUnicorn » Tue Jul 20, 2021 5:13 pm

Johannes wrote:
Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:56 pm
Yeah you can scale in law somewhat.
But equity biglaw partner takes 15 years which kind of defeats the point of scaling.
It’s also not 10x scaling but more like 1.4x scaling. Pyramid scheme vs true scaing.
Shitlaw equity partner or Personal injury is def scalable, but the risk there is insane.
tech just changed the game so much it's tough to measure. when i graduated college ibanking doctor and consulting were the big three money paths, and all of those involved the same grind to eventually maybe reach partner and enjoy some mild scaling. law does pretty well as far as those models go, but just gets crushed by tech.

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Johannes » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:56 pm

Yeah you can scale in law somewhat.
But equity biglaw partner takes 15 years which kind of defeats the point of scaling.
It’s also not 10x scaling but more like 1.4x scaling. Pyramid scheme vs true scaing.
Shitlaw equity partner or Personal injury is def scalable, but the risk there is insane.

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by BlendedUnicorn » Tue Jul 20, 2021 3:31 pm

Johannes wrote:
Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:38 pm
Also true ^^

Getting rich stacking hourly labor dollars is such a suckers game. You have to scale somehow, be that in equity or impact decision making beyond law. In house gives you opps at those. Billable hour never will.
ehh, if you work at a firm you can scale by stacking associates. It just doesn't feel like it for us because we're the scaling building blocks. Equity and whatever is cool of course, and you're never going to hear me saying inhouse is bad, but patherns aren't tying their incomes to hours worked anymore than anyone else in a c-suite.

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by North » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:50 pm

^ 100% agree

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Johannes » Mon Jul 12, 2021 11:38 pm

Also true ^^

Getting rich stacking hourly labor dollars is such a suckers game. You have to scale somehow, be that in equity or impact decision making beyond law. In house gives you opps at those. Billable hour never will.

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by kellyfrost » Sat Jul 10, 2021 6:59 pm

jeff chiles wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:24 pm
My not super well informed opinion is that you can still make a lot of money after going in-house but that’s by moving to a non lawyer job.
Long term goal here for me. I’m already getting some good experience too.

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by JenDarby » Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:44 pm

jeff chiles wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:24 pm
My not super well informed opinion is that you can still make a lot of money after going in-house but that’s by moving to a non lawyer job.
what is “a lot” in this scenario?

genuine question, because I think I’ve lost concept

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by jeff chiles » Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:24 pm

My not super well informed opinion is that you can still make a lot of money after going in-house but that’s by moving to a non lawyer job.

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by JenDarby » Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:05 pm

notachicken wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:09 pm
Wow guess I’m never quitting big law
yea I was disappointed

I really want to leave my job, but apparently unless I go biglaw I can’t make more lol (unless as Johann/wiz said stock options make it)

I have amazing benefits (just pay taxes on my, couldn’t get better, insurance cost), 100% 401K match, but I hate being chained to an 8-5:30 desk

I’d take a pay cut for 100% remote

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Johannes » Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:32 pm

Losing 13 years of your life and then probably taking another 10+ off health wise is such a shortsighted decision imo.

Tons of new studies saying sleep is basically the most important health factor. Couple of partners at my firm have died in their 60s — totally unheard of for millionaire 60 yos

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Johannes » Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:29 pm

Yeah I think high end pathern equity is basically untouchable at ~$5 M guaranteed salary

But problem is takes 20 years to get there. And your nonequity partner years 8-13 are probably incredibly brutal from what I’ve seen.

1-8 lockstep salary and bonus pretty fine
8-13 nonequity partner $500k ish without raise working 3000 all in hours is the big no no
15-20 equity partner 1-2M acquiring book also brutal
20-death 5M salary is fine (not my choice for a good life but can understand it)

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by wizzy » Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:17 pm

BlendedUnicorn wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:10 pm
Johannes wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:50 pm
Like anyone that loaded up on Netflix options in their pay comp is making over $1M
Yeah I would take .04% equity in FAAMG over biglaw pathern salaries.
I think I would settle for $400-900M in FAAMG stock too

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by BlendedUnicorn » Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:10 pm

Johannes wrote:
Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:50 pm
Like anyone that loaded up on Netflix options in their pay comp is making over $1M
Yeah I would take .04% equity in FAAMG over biglaw pathern salaries.

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by waldorf » Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:22 pm

There’s also a lot of great benefits: good health insurance, 401k match, reimbursements many biglaw firms don’t offer (like reimbursement for your home internet), some companies will put money in your HSA each year, free food, etc. I have spent a ridiculous amount of my take home this year on healthcare because I’ve had a lot of issues and my biglaw insurance is so bad.

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Johannes » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:50 pm

Like anyone that loaded up on Netflix options in their pay comp is making over $1M

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Johannes » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:49 pm

If you’re factoring in 1600 billables instead of 2000 and equity appreciation I think you’re coming out ahead in house looking at those numbers.

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by goden » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:13 pm

goden wrote:
Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:03 pm
Thanks for this!

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by notachicken » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:09 pm

Wow guess I’m never quitting big law

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Johannes » Fri Jul 09, 2021 9:27 pm

Wow very helpful! Thanks

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by JenDarby » Fri Jul 09, 2021 8:04 pm

this is extremely helpful/useful info, thank you!

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Hambone » Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:01 am

To add to the above post, the data below is from an anonymous Tech GC survey. This is Silicon valley tech companies participating in the survey so the comp is probably on the higher end. Hope it's helpful for people negotiating salaries or even just considering going in house
Spoiler:
Image

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by goden » Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:03 pm

Thanks for this!

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Hambone » Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:56 pm

I just completed a round of interviewing at primarily tech companies and figured I'd add some of the rough TC estimates for various companies. Some of them are offers/estimates I received while others are based on info collected from people in house. These are all for NY/SF markets. Smaller cities will obviously offer lower comp.

FAANG (G>N>F>Amazon>Apple in comp generally)
<5 year of experience - Total comp was around 220-240k
5-10 years of experience (counsel role) - 270-320k
10+ years of experience (senior/AGC level) - 330-400k

Also Amazon has a horrible reputation for being a bad place to work and their comp is heavily weighted towards equity. Snap was similar to the ranges above (Pre-IPO they were closer to the top end but now are probably in the middle). Netflix is on the higher end but their comp structure is weird.

Mid-Cap Tech Company - Counsel - $210k base + 15% bonus
F500 (Non FAANG) Tech Company - Counsel - $250k base + 15% bonus
Series C Startup (unicorn) - 140-160k base + ~60k in equity which had a chance to explode.
F100 Financial Services Company - Senior counsel ~300k Total comp. Counsel comp was around 200k here.
F100 Healthcare Company - Senior Counsel ~300k (breakdown was 200k base + 25% bonus + 25% stock)
F100 Oil&Gas Company - Counsel - 180k + 15% bonus

Hope this is helpful

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Guest » Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:36 am

a) what kind of legal job/firm/office do you work at
Smaller firm (10ish attorneys). Public finance with a large real estate component. Very specialized and involves a ton of municipal law

b) how long have you worked there/what year did you graduate law school
2016 grad. Lateraled in 2019.

c) geographic area/market (specifically or primary/secondary/tertiary)
Texas

d) annual salary + bonus, benefits, etc
120k starting (raises yearly), 20% bonus at around 1800 hrs with additional awarded based on a few other metrics we use. 401k with match program, health insurance partly covered for family plan. Work from home frequently. Not a traditional benefit, but my daily work hours are very reliable (9-6) and I have to answer an email or work on something on a weekend maybe once a quarter at most

Re: LEGAL SALARY DATAPOINTS

by Guest » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:57 pm

a) ~160 attorney, regional firm.
b) Graduated 2016, been here 1 month.
c) Primary
d) 170k, unsure on bonus, good amount paid towards health/dental but I pay around 30 a month, 401k matching, small contribution to HSA, business development budget, 200k life insurance.

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