The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

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Expand view Topic review: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by Guest » Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:36 pm

proteinshake wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:17 pm
anyone know how the local firms are doing right now given the downturn?
From what I've seen, most are shifting all of their hiring to the spring since most law schools aren't holding OCIs until then.

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by proteinshake » Wed May 20, 2020 3:17 pm

anyone know how the local firms are doing right now given the downturn?

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by Guest » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:14 pm

this is a post to see if guest posting works here

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by HangingAround » Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:07 pm

Stranger wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:29 pm
Tagging into this thread as someone who would ideally like to land in NC. Raleigh born, raised, and undergrad, worked there for over a decade, currently in SC, going to W&L this fall. With 30+ years of ties (and plenty of family in the state), will going to school in Virginia hurt me much with NC employers?
It’ll hurt in the sense of not having those NC firms on campus to interview you which I think is a lot bigger deal than may seem readily apparent - unless you have a personal connection you’ll just be cold applying to them. I think you could still get plenty of interviews but it’ll lose you some that will be so focused on their OCI process. I think going back to raleigh 1L summer will really help your narrative of wanting to be back in Raleigh. While I don’t know w and l lawyers in Raleigh, i can’t see your choice of school or being in Va as an issue itself, especially given the choice is made at a time when W&L has bounced back up in its employment numbers over Unc/wake - just be ready to be asked about it and I wouldn’t say because of the rankings.

Just like if you were at the NC schools though, you’ll probably need to have really high grades to go to the big firms. Just not a lot of hiring.

-don’t actually work there but it’s the only market I’ve actively followed for a few years and will be there so take with a grain of salt

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by proteinshake » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:52 pm

Stranger wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:29 pm
Tagging into this thread as someone who would ideally like to land in NC. Raleigh born, raised, and undergrad, worked there for over a decade, currently in SC, going to W&L this fall. With 30+ years of ties (and plenty of family in the state), will going to school in Virginia hurt me much with NC employers?
there are a lot of UVA grads in NC and I’ve met a few W&L grads, so I don’t think it matters. though going to UNC/Duke would obviously have its alumni and loyalty advantages. You have strong ties so I wouldn’t worry about it much, though you’ll need great grades from W&L.

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by Stranger » Wed Apr 25, 2018 12:29 pm

Tagging into this thread as someone who would ideally like to land in NC. Raleigh born, raised, and undergrad, worked there for over a decade, currently in SC, going to W&L this fall. With 30+ years of ties (and plenty of family in the state), will going to school in Virginia hurt me much with NC employers?

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by proteinshake » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:31 pm

HangingAround wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:16 pm
proteinshake wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:44 pm
HangingAround wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:03 pm
proteinshake wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:08 pm
anyone still active in this thread?
I check it, don’t remember your last question before you edited it, but I didn’t know the answer.
I don't remember it either but I think it was pretty unanswerable anyway. a new question: how big is pre-OCI hiring in NC? is it hard to get callbacks via networking over the summer through informational interviews? I'm trying to save as many bids as I can once OCI rolls around and I hear this is pretty come in NYC.
I think UNC wouldn’t let us reach out for that to firms that were coming on campus (I’m pretty positive about this or I would’ve done it), so it’s hard to say. I didn’t hear of people doing them much (except I think I heard mcguirewoods and a few Charlotte places may have already started interviewing/offering people pre-OCI, especially people who did the charlotre diversity program or were otherwise in charlotte over the summer), even the people that had a of of offers. If anything people would do their backup markets (like NYC) pre oci to the extent possible to free up time. You can have 1-2 callbacks a day for 2-3 weeks straight if you’re a top candidate, and given the rolling offers you’re trying to schedule them ASAP so having more flexibility is nice. I think it’s also either nice or sucks in terms of confidence how those pre oci interviews went
I didn’t do any but that was my impression.i had high grades and a decent network, but no one was contacting me to do them. I got most the OCIs, and can’t speak to if I would’ve gotten any if I had reached out pre OCI, but I was only interested in the firms coming onto campus and I imagine they would’ve just told me to wait for then.

If a firm isn’t coming to your school I’d reach out over the summer just so you aren’t reaching out when they’re focused on OCIs and may be filling up their class.
PM'd

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by HangingAround » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:16 pm

proteinshake wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:44 pm
HangingAround wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:03 pm
proteinshake wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:08 pm
anyone still active in this thread?
I check it, don’t remember your last question before you edited it, but I didn’t know the answer.
I don't remember it either but I think it was pretty unanswerable anyway. a new question: how big is pre-OCI hiring in NC? is it hard to get callbacks via networking over the summer through informational interviews? I'm trying to save as many bids as I can once OCI rolls around and I hear this is pretty come in NYC.
I think UNC wouldn’t let us reach out for that to firms that were coming on campus (I’m pretty positive about this or I would’ve done it), so it’s hard to say. I didn’t hear of people doing them much (except I think I heard mcguirewoods and a few Charlotte places may have already started interviewing/offering people pre-OCI, especially people who did the charlotre diversity program or were otherwise in charlotte over the summer), even the people that had a of of offers. If anything people would do their backup markets (like NYC) pre oci to the extent possible to free up time. You can have 1-2 callbacks a day for 2-3 weeks straight if you’re a top candidate, and given the rolling offers you’re trying to schedule them ASAP so having more flexibility is nice. I think it’s also either nice or sucks in terms of confidence how those pre oci interviews went
I didn’t do any but that was my impression.i had high grades and a decent network, but no one was contacting me to do them. I got most the OCIs, and can’t speak to if I would’ve gotten any if I had reached out pre OCI, but I was only interested in the firms coming onto campus and I imagine they would’ve just told me to wait for then.

If a firm isn’t coming to your school I’d reach out over the summer just so you aren’t reaching out when they’re focused on OCIs and may be filling up their class.

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by proteinshake » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:44 pm

HangingAround wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:03 pm
proteinshake wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:08 pm
anyone still active in this thread?
I check it, don’t remember your last question before you edited it, but I didn’t know the answer.
I don't remember it either but I think it was pretty unanswerable anyway. a new question: how big is pre-OCI hiring in NC? is it hard to get callbacks via networking over the summer through informational interviews? I'm trying to save as many bids as I can once OCI rolls around and I hear this is pretty come in NYC.

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by HangingAround » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:03 pm

proteinshake wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:08 pm
anyone still active in this thread?
I check it, don’t remember your last question before you edited it, but I didn’t know the answer.

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by proteinshake » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:08 pm

anyone still active in this thread?

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by Caesar » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:11 pm

Anyone know what staff attorney salary is at womble?

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by proteinshake » Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:50 am

that is very good, especially since you have a much better chance at making partner compared to major market firms

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by Jimbob » Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:22 am

There’s really no public information so you’re going to get nothing but guesses, but based on the cars they drive, the houses they live in, their country clubs, the trips they take, etc. I would hazard a guess at: young ones starting at $250,000-300,000, and then the established and older ones around $500,000. This is a pure guess though.

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by proteinshake » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:13 pm

anyone know how much partners at firms like RBH/MVA make?

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by Jimbob » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:16 pm

Yeah I think that $150,000 figure is accurate. RBH has no billable hour standard. They are notable for nobody looking at your hours except the billing department and hours not factoring into the review process or bonuses etc. that said, I believe that an average first year would have hours at RBH probably around 1900 from what I’ve heard.

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by proteinshake » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:37 pm

so on NALP the starting salary for MVA and RBH is 150K. had no clue, thought they were still at 135K. also, there's no minimum hours requirement at MVA, but the average amount billed in 2016 was 1903 hours

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by HangingAround » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:49 pm

Parker Poe from old thread --

I believe Parker Poe is 130k starting out. Friend of mine is summering there and his/her pay works out to 2500 a week, or 130k a year. Though I've heard from an attorney there that they revamped their compensation structure to raise first year pay (and allow for more hours from training/pro bono/recruiting to count towards the billable requirement), so maybe it is higher than that. I've always gotten the impression they pay a bit less than MVA/RBH

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by HangingAround » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:49 pm

MVA/RBH from old thread --

In leaner times (2010) MVA was 125k starting with 5k raises a year

https://abovethelaw.com/2010/03/nationw ... -universe/

Before that they were at 145k with larger yearly raises. That thread also contemplates bonuses even in those years from below 5k to 50k so who knows.

I think both start at 150 now (anecdotally from people heading there and if I remember right both were on NALP but now seem to be off of it) - I imagine MVA has gone above 5k a year raises - surely nothing at all similar to a NY scale though.

ETA: both are still on Nalp and say 150k starting, just wasn't getting them through my google search

To a point someone made earlier about partnership chances at these firms, MVA was reported in 2015 to have 8% of ALL associates (not just those at the end of whatever the partnership track is there) promoted to partner per year.

https://abovethelaw.com/2015/08/which-b ... rtnership/

RBH has a sweet/unusual for firms profit sharing program - "In each of the past 25 years, the firm has contributed to each participant’s account an amount equal to 10 percent of the employee’s regular cash compensation." Fully vested immediately.

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by HangingAround » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:49 pm

Asheville from old thread--

Ward&Smith has a small office there. They're the biggest firm (in terms of # of attorneys) in eastern NC. Probably 100 or so. The Asheville office does some interesting work with breweries though I imagine it'd be difficult to land that office. Also, they have all their summers in the Raleigh office and you spend a couple of days over the summer in the other offices (Wilmington, the HQs in New Bern, Greenville, and Asheville). You get placed in an office after the summer if you get an offer - though I think the Raleigh office is (unsurprisingly) the one growing.

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by HangingAround » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:48 pm

Brief Kilpatrick discussion from old thread --

they came to UNC OCI and said they were interviewing for Raleigh and Winston in NC, along with Atlanta and other bigger markets, but I haven't heard of anyone going there (or even doing a callback) in the 2L or 3L class, while I have for the other firms discussed ITT. Think they were focused on IP backgrounds and the Atlanta office. I'm probably just out of the loop on that one though.

Re: The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by HangingAround » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:47 pm

Just my post lifted from TLS - hopefully others join. My opinion isn't all the informed on these, so take it with a grain of salt. UNC student.

Raleigh:

At UNC's OCI we had Smith Anderson, Wyrick Robbins, K&L Gates, Poyner Spruill, Brooks Pierce, Ellis & Winters, Troutman Sanders, Smith Moore Leatherwood, Nelson Mullins, Williams Mullen, Womble, Nexsen Pruet maybe a couple others.

E&W is a really well regarded litigation boutique but is only in Raleigh and Gboro. Brooks Pierce is highly regarded as well but is only in Raleigh/Gboro/Wilmington. Parker Poe is a highly regarded regional firm with Charlotte and Raleigh offices. Womble has a substantial presence in Raleigh but it wasn't clear at OCI if they were willing to let you start in Raleigh - they seem to encourage people interested in Raleigh to move from the Winston office to Raleigh after a couple of years and I don't know anyone starting in the Raaleigh office. McGuireWoods has a decent-sized office there, didn't do OCI for that office though. SA is well regarded, especially for transactional, and is the largest in Raleigh. Wyrick is well regarded, especially for transactional. Poyner has ~50 attorneys there doing a range of things. Nexsen I don't think is a great spot to be a summer at currently, as I pointed out in the other thread in more detail. Don't know much about the others. MVA has a small RTP office and RBH has a small CH office - I think the RBH one has a SCOTUS clerk associate and the MVA one has no associates - they didn't interview for either.

Also both K&L and McGuire don't follow lockstep comp, so even though much bigger than some of the other firms the comp might follow Raleigh market. I have no idea. But the internet says they both start at 145. I think a few of the NC-centric places would pay in that ballpark though I think the midlaw may start at 95-100 and vary place by place.

A lot of these places will have a summer or two so it's tough.



Charlotte:

We had the big NY firms - Winston, Cad, Mayer, and Dechert. Though they pay the most, most people aren't gunning for these - it's heavy securitization/capital markets work except for Winston that has some lit, etc, and it's viewed as pretty transient. Katten I guess is grouped in there too.

I'd say most people targeting Charlotte would want to work at MVA, RBH, or McGuireWoods, with the idea being that even if the hours aren't that much better (another thread mentioned a 2000 hour requirement for MVA) you're not set on securitizations and have a better chance to stick around. Each has their strengths - you can look at Chambers and Partners website for some generalization for what that's worth. Parker Poe seems strong and interviewed here too. We also had Troutman, Alston & Bird, Johnston Allison & Hord, and a smattering of others. A&B is a large presence in Charlotte doing a range of things though they were specifically interviewing for a securitization-type spot, so they wanted you to come in in a specific practice group as a summer. K&L came too. I know older people got Womble Charlotte, and I imagine that's a strong office. Poyner may have a summer here. King&Spalding is around but didn't interview for Charlotte. Bell Davis and Pitt may have a summer and does lit. James McElroy may have been here too. We had a few smaller boutique-feel type tax places come interview, but I don't know much about them and they didn't seem to hire often. I think MVA/RBH, etc are paying 150 starting, and your raises would be a lot slower than at the securitization shops. Hunton interviewed here too. Bradley takes a person or two and does 1L hiring.

A lot of people at these various firms are shootoffs from Kennedy Covington which before a merger with K&L was a well regarded NC firm - I get the impression it didn't go so hot and a lot of people left or never joined the combined entity - so now the really well regarded debt finance group at mcGuirewoods and the folks that started the Troutman office and I imagine folks all over the place come from that Kennedy Covington regional-firm background so may make even larger firms have a bit different feel in the Charlotte office

ETA: I wouldn't sleep on the sophistication of the work some of the top NC-based transactional firms are doing - they're regularly working with public companies based in NC in M&A, securities, etc that I can't imagine is much different than biglaw. Though I do think it's true that'll balance with mid market as well.

The Definitive Thread on North Carolina (NC) Law Firms

by HangingAround » Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:45 pm

Moving this over from TLS for general discussion of NC firms. This is again proposed to be the place for Q&A on NC firms, discussion of NC firms, etc. that isn't 3-4 years old.

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