Unlocking 1L SAs

Post a reply


In an effort to prevent automatic submissions, we require that you complete the following challenge.
Smilies
:D :) ;) :( :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: :!: :?: :idea: :arrow: :| :mrgreen: B| 8| :clap:

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Unlocking 1L SAs

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by Brushedsuedeluvr » Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:12 pm

waldorf wrote:
Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:49 pm
UVA2B wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:01 am
* At the time I wrote this, NALP was enforcing a December 1st application timeline. That is no longer in effect, but I will update when we better understand what that change means for those markets that act/move quickly.
Anyone have an update on this? A few 1Ls at my school have reached out to me, and so far I've just told them to check when applications open on each individual firm's website.

I've heard through the grapevine that some firms are opening applications on November 1st now but no idea how common that is
Just saw this, so I’m a little late, but throwing it out there anyways-I put together a guide for my 1Ls, and checked a ton of websites/portals. Most hewed to the old Dec. 1 opening, but I did notice a significant number opening in November, and only some that had November apps explicitly told students to stick to their school’s guidelines.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by waldorf » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:49 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:01 am
* At the time I wrote this, NALP was enforcing a December 1st application timeline. That is no longer in effect, but I will update when we better understand what that change means for those markets that act/move quickly.
Anyone have an update on this? A few 1Ls at my school have reached out to me, and so far I've just told them to check when applications open on each individual firm's website.

I've heard through the grapevine that some firms are opening applications on November 1st now but no idea how common that is

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by UVA2B » Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:16 pm

Best wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:43 pm
The NALP standard on December 1 no longer exists I'm pretty sure. Whether and/or how that affects timing, I have no comment.
Absolutely true, and it'll be an interesting shift for those firms/markets that snipe talent based on early hiring deadlines. I'll update the OP to reflect this change once I know what it might mean.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by Best » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:43 pm

The NALP standard on December 1 no longer exists I'm pretty sure. Whether and/or how that affects timing, I have no comment.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by LorneMalvo » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:11 pm

Wanted to share a few thoughts based on my experience (and my classmates') applying to 1L SAs this year in the hope they might help.

- Grades matter for getting in the door, but I think your overall resume matters a lot more once you get a screener/actually noticed. I think firms recognize that you may only have 3 or 4 grades so once you're past a certain threshold, it doesn't really change the calculus that someone has a 3.6 vs a 3.8. In my experience, they matter most for New York because they don't care about ties and have many more applications to sift through.

- Ties are HUGE. I cannot emphasize this enough. Especially when you have ties to a secondary market and your law school is not in that market. I think firms like to use 1L SAs as an advertising mechanism - they want their 1Ls to pump up their firm and drive more 2Ls to bid on/take a look at them in schools where they may have historically been overlooked or not as highly sought after. Ex: You go to Cornell or Stanford or another far away T14, but were born and raised in Georgia and had a pretty good 1st semester. Even if you think you'd rather be in NYC/DC, your application will get much more play in Atlanta and firms will want to use you to increase their presence on campus. Emphasize your "sincere desire" to return to your home market after graduation. Even some of the giant NYC firms with 100+ SA classes will only take 1-2 1Ls, so the advantage of applying NYC in 2L OCI is kind of diminished and ties to home markets matter.

- Have questions prepared. This obviously goes for all interviews, but especially for 1Ls since you've only had a semester of law school, there is only so much interviewers can actually talk to you about. I definitely had a few interviews that went straight to "do you have any questions for me?" about 5-10 minutes into a 30 minute interview.

- Apply as early as possible, but don't be dissuaded if you missed the boat and are applying after Christmas or even mid-January. Different firms have different recruitment timelines, and they vary in whether or not they review rolling apps or wait for the deadline to begin screeners. Ex: One SV firm says they take applications until Feb 1, but I know for a fact that they hired 5 out of their 6 1Ls by at least early/mid-January. I also know people who applied to the Skadden 1L Scholars on literally the last day the application was open this year and still got interviews. Timelines also seem to be relatively consistent by market. Boston seems to be a bit slower than NYC/DC. IP recruiting is a whole different animal and I can't speak to specifics because I'm not IP but based on my classmates, they interview VERY QUICKLY so applying early for IP is definitely advised.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by UVA2B » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:37 pm

That's a great point Ruby, and congratulations on all of your success both in school and in the job hunt! You're clearly winning the law school game handily.

It's absolutely generic and somewhat hyperbolic to suggest someone must apply December 1st in TX in order to have any shot of a 1L SA there. And it's also possible TX is moving away from a heavily rolling interview schedule where they do screeners on a rolling basis, but wait on offering CBs for grades because it's no hidden secret that TX used to move faster than all of the other markets. Someone in your position is likely to have opportunities so long as you don't wait too long to apply (thinking like mid-January, not mid-December) because you're exactly the person TX firms want for their 1L SAs (T14+strong grades+TX ties and diversity hires are always an excellent plus, even when it's not for a diversity position).

Firms will make room for the stellar candidates they come across, and you definitely check that box. Applying December 1st and being early to the bowl for screener interviews is more for the median TX folks who need early and often contact with TX firms. You might apply December 1st and get a couple screeners that amount to nothing, and you might apply on December 20th and get multiple offers because you're a killer candidate. As I'm sure you can appreciate, I spoke in generalities that tried to capture the best advice (that is better covered by the TX 1L SA advice), even though it's not the only path to getting a 1L SA.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by necho2 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:15 pm

Yeah I have friends with stellar grades who had TX 1L SAs and definitely only started getting offers basically once those grades went out, but aren't you diverse too? Even for a non-diversity 1L slot, straight As + diverse + T14 means you're gonna be pretty in-demand (also congrats, that's awesome!)

The Texas Law peeps at our school basically describe it as a "signal" that you care enough about being in TX to take the time to send them out on Day 1. Obviously grades are more important and the app time can be costly, but I'm not quite sure the takeaway here should be a straight weighting of "study v. TX apps", since at most we're talking 5-10 hours of additional work.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by RubyRhad » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:15 pm

I just want to push back a little on the narrative that you have to apply to Texas 1L SAs ON December 1st. I applied to TX 1L SAs on or after December 15 and have been very successful (5 callbacks scheduled).

Relevant info: all of my first semester grades are in the A range, I go to a T14, and I'm from Texas.

Note: Not all of the CBs are for diversity programs.

I'm not saying that you shouldn't apply on December 1 (it's obviously great advice) - I'm just saying that applications take a lot of time and effort and if you feel like that time and effort is better spent studying, then you should study because TX cares about grades too (most of my friends who are applying to TX 1L SAs and had interviews before grades were released were told that their offers were contingent on stellar grades or that they wouldn't hear back from the firm until after the firm had a chance to review their grades).

So yes, aim to apply on December 1, but don't be freaked if you don't and don't take away from valuable study time to ensure that you do.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by paperchaser » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:23 am

addie1412 wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:53 pm
One more data point:
- 1L SA in Houston, V20
- below median at YHS (but offers were pre-grades anyways)
- applied to ~15 TX firms with no ties on 12/1
- 4 CBs, 2 offers (1 before Christmas), 1 ding and 1 CB I had to cancel after accepting an offer
Did you network significantly? Or become a member of the texas club?

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by paperchaser » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:22 am

Great info! A separate guide for just diversity fellowships could be good; since texas has its own guide

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by addie1412 » Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:53 pm

One more data point:
- 1L SA in Houston, V20
- below median at YHS (but offers were pre-grades anyways)
- applied to ~15 TX firms with no ties on 12/1
- 4 CBs, 2 offers (1 before Christmas), 1 ding and 1 CB I had to cancel after accepting an offer

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by UVA2B » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:50 pm

ss108 wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:56 pm
Sorry if this isn't the place to ask, but can anyone provide some data-points or advice for LA and/or OC specifically?
SmokeytheBear wrote:
This is probably your best person to give advice on the LA market. You can also feel free to take your question to the LA OCI thread or the LA associates taking questions thread.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by waldorf » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:48 pm

Another data point:
1L SA in Houston. Top 5% at a “T20.” Applied exclusively to Texas with meh ties (significant other). I attended the winter receptions and networked a ton.

Applied to around 70 firms. I applied to over half of them (including all of the big ones) on 12/1. The rest I did between the 1st and 15th. I was kinda crazy and wanted to apply as broadly as possible, so I applied to firms that had not even hired 1Ls in recent years but said on NALP that they do. If I had been realistic and applied only to firms that actually had a history of hiring 1Ls, I would have cut that number in half.

Had 5 CBs and 3 offers before I withdrew everywhere because I had an expiring offer at the firm I ultimately ended up at. 2 CBs were pre-grades and I am 99% sure I got them due to networking, because I just wasn't applying from a school good enough to have callbacks and certainly not offers before grades came out.

The day my grades came out (late January), I got an offer and several CB requests--the TX market moves fast, and while I'm not sure you *have* to apply on 12/1, I definitely wouldn't wait till after the holidays (especially if you're at HYSCCN--I know multiple T6 students who had offers before Christmas).

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by ss108 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 4:56 pm

Sorry if this isn't the place to ask, but can anyone provide some data-points or advice for LA and/or OC specifically?

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by UVA2B » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:57 am

sittykitty wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:49 am
UVA2B wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:05 am
sittykitty wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:33 pm
To provide a data point, I applied to 1L SAs exclusively after Christmas. Some I didn't apply to until I got my grades back in mid-January (at the firm's request). I received 5 callbacks and 3 offers and spent my summer at a V5 firm in NYC. CNN, top 10-15%.
Thanks for this. Considering your stats, you were relatively strong for NYC 1L SAs. You did well in NYC in terms of CBs and offers, but would you mind offering how many applications you sent out? I think it's always important to understand the input and the output, especially for those who aren't top 10% from CCN.
Of course! I checked my outbox to confirm; I applied to 20 firms in total.
Wow, that's impressive. I mean, CCN top 10% is pretty much Wachtell level, so it probably makes sense if you ended up at Cravath or Skadden for a 1L SA (not trying to read too much into your placement as a 1L SA, just saying you performed in line with how you can/should generically). Regardless, thank you for providing a data point of value.

I also hope you enjoyed those exorbitant SA paychecks (assuming you were at a firm that was above and/or matched the $190k scale).

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by sittykitty » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:49 am

UVA2B wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:05 am
sittykitty wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:33 pm
To provide a data point, I applied to 1L SAs exclusively after Christmas. Some I didn't apply to until I got my grades back in mid-January (at the firm's request). I received 5 callbacks and 3 offers and spent my summer at a V5 firm in NYC. CNN, top 10-15%.
Thanks for this. Considering your stats, you were relatively strong for NYC 1L SAs. You did well in NYC in terms of CBs and offers, but would you mind offering how many applications you sent out? I think it's always important to understand the input and the output, especially for those who aren't top 10% from CCN.
Of course! I checked my outbox to confirm; I applied to 20 firms in total.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by UVA2B » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:05 am

sittykitty wrote:
Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:33 pm
To provide a data point, I applied to 1L SAs exclusively after Christmas. Some I didn't apply to until I got my grades back in mid-January (at the firm's request). I received 5 callbacks and 3 offers and spent my summer at a V5 firm in NYC. CNN, top 10-15%.
Thanks for this. Considering your stats, you were relatively strong for NYC 1L SAs. You did well in NYC in terms of CBs and offers, but would you mind offering how many applications you sent out? I think it's always important to understand the input and the output, especially for those who aren't top 10% from CCN.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by sittykitty » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:33 pm

To provide a data point, I applied to 1L SAs exclusively after Christmas. Some I didn't apply to until I got my grades back in mid-January (at the firm's request). I received 5 callbacks and 3 offers and spent my summer at a V5 firm in NYC. CCN, top 10-15%.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by ymmv » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:19 pm

UVA2B wrote:
Thanks for all this, UVA. Added to the guide to the front page for this fall’s 1L SA applicants.

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by UVA2B » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:54 am

cprit91 wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:06 pm
UVA2B if you were accurate about two days determining the availability of 1L summer positions, shouldn't we be literally getting a slight edge by sending out emails at 12:01 a.m.? Too try-hard? How ab 3:21 a.m.? 😂

serious tho
Tongue in cheek aside, markets like TX can see nearly that much difference. Apply on December 1st, get a job. Apply on December 3rd, the screener schedule might be full already. Other markets move somewhat slower than that, especially if screeners are predicated by grades.

Considering you seem to be targeting Philly, I’ll just say that the 1L SA market there seems to be somewhat smaller, and I can’t really speak to how they hire for 1L SAs outside of it not being a notorious early hiring timeline market. That likely means that quickness of application may matter less, relatively speaking. That may mean they wait on grades, or it may just mean they move slower generally.

And yes, I’m no longer 2B, but a screen name and any small amount of credibility that flows from it lasts forever.

by cprit91 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:49 pm

by cprit91 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:07 pm

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by cprit91 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:06 pm

UVA2B if you were accurate about two days determining the availability of 1L summer positions, shouldn't we be literally getting a slight edge by sending out emails at 12:01 a.m.? Too try-hard? How ab 3:21 a.m.? 😂

serious tho

by cprit91 » Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:39 pm

Re: Unlocking 1L SAs

by itsbertmacklin » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:54 pm

Re: applying to your home market, what is the opinion on international home market? My family still lives in HK and I have really established ties. A family friend advised that HK big law offices love folks who are T6 median and above who are bilingual (no idea if I will be median but I am CCN and fluent). I am interested in applying but worried that doing so will hurt my chances in the NYC market afterwards (I have very strong ties to HK and this might signal I’m not leaning US?)

Top