by UVA2B » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:55 pm
RubyRhad wrote: ↑Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:19 pm
UVA2B wrote: ↑Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:37 pm
UVA2B, do you have any insight as to whether turning down a 1L summer offer to a firm in Texas forecloses the chance to summer with them 2L summer?
I want to start with a few caveats before offering any advice. First, I've never job hunted in TX, and anything I say should be understood within that context. So I can't really speak knowledgeably about how TX offices of firms will react to turning down an offer beyond my understanding of hiring practices generally and how this sort of thing can be perceived. Second, if you're competitive as a 1L SA, you're imminently more competitive for a 2L SA, so it's very possible a big shop in TX won't care that you turned them down before, because they will ultimately want competitive candidates who want to be in TX.
Somewhat depending on the firm and office, you will be competitive for a 2L SA, even if you turn down an offer for a 1L SA. That's not to say they won't question why you turned them down the first time, but that just shifts the burden back to you to explain why you chose another opportunity, and further, why you've reevaluated after that opportunity. So let's say you hypothetically turn down JW Houston because you wanted to try a slightly bigger firm by taking an opportunity at KE Houston, you will have to convey to JW the second time around that you realized you really want a TX firm with deep TX ties, and after experiencing a national firm that is aggressively expanding, you prefer the value of being at a firm that will always have a presence in TX because TX runs in their veins. For TX firms, this is the type of thing they will want to hear, because they want to see you as a long-term investment as a 2L SA. And this could basically work in reverse if you were at JW Houston and you turned down KE Houston the first time around. So the key is developing a narrative that will make sense to your interviewers.
Further to the point, the way you handle turning down the offer will ultimately matter for not getting rejected the next time around. Some of the TX offices seem to have recruiting contacts that are unique to their offices, so it's more likely they'll remember you if you don't turn down their offer professionally in a way that won't shut that door. Turning down a 1L SA offer is a delicate matter, because firms know they are buyers in a buyers market for 1L SAs, so 1Ls who turn down an SA will stick out more if you don't handle it properly. That means you absolutely need to maintain open lines of communication with recruiting and any contacts you made at the firm, and you need to explain professionally why you've decided to take another offer. That could be based on a better summer schedule, or maybe a more robust practice area in an area you think interests you, or even a personal connection and relationship with one of the people you met at the other firm. How you navigate saying no will ultimately leave open whether the firm thinks you shut them down for a competitor or if you just took another opportunity that you can explain later when deciding to apply elsewhere.
Finally, if you're blessed with several opportunities, you can at least ask whether they are open to splitting the summer. Your best bet is to not shut out either firm, spending half of the summer with each. That way you could have multiple return offers at two firms that interest you without shutting yourself out from those firms. If you have multiple offers, a split summer as a rising 2L is kind of your ideal scenario.
I'm happy to expand on anything here, but if you've gotten multiple 1L SA offers in the market you want, you're already in a remarkable spot. Focus on getting a return offer above all. Going into 2L OCI with a return offer is the easiest way to defray the stress of getting anything at OCI.
[quote=RubyRhad post_id=269468 time=1550355545 user_id=195]
[quote=UVA2B post_id=263944 time=1549049871 user_id=81]
[/quote]
UVA2B, do you have any insight as to whether turning down a 1L summer offer to a firm in Texas forecloses the chance to summer with them 2L summer?
[/quote]
I want to start with a few caveats before offering any advice. First, I've never job hunted in TX, and anything I say should be understood within that context. So I can't really speak knowledgeably about how TX offices of firms will react to turning down an offer beyond my understanding of hiring practices generally and how this sort of thing can be perceived. Second, if you're competitive as a 1L SA, you're imminently more competitive for a 2L SA, so it's very possible a big shop in TX won't care that you turned them down before, because they will ultimately want competitive candidates who want to be in TX.
Somewhat depending on the firm and office, you will be competitive for a 2L SA, even if you turn down an offer for a 1L SA. That's not to say they won't question why you turned them down the first time, but that just shifts the burden back to you to explain why you chose another opportunity, and further, why you've reevaluated after that opportunity. So let's say you hypothetically turn down JW Houston because you wanted to try a slightly bigger firm by taking an opportunity at KE Houston, you will have to convey to JW the second time around that you realized you really want a TX firm with deep TX ties, and after experiencing a national firm that is aggressively expanding, you prefer the value of being at a firm that will always have a presence in TX because TX runs in their veins. For TX firms, this is the type of thing they will want to hear, because they want to see you as a long-term investment as a 2L SA. And this could basically work in reverse if you were at JW Houston and you turned down KE Houston the first time around. So the key is developing a narrative that will make sense to your interviewers.
Further to the point, the way you handle turning down the offer will ultimately matter for not getting rejected the next time around. Some of the TX offices seem to have recruiting contacts that are unique to their offices, so it's more likely they'll remember you if you don't turn down their offer professionally in a way that won't shut that door. Turning down a 1L SA offer is a delicate matter, because firms know they are buyers in a buyers market for 1L SAs, so 1Ls who turn down an SA will stick out more if you don't handle it properly. That means you absolutely need to maintain open lines of communication with recruiting and any contacts you made at the firm, and you need to explain professionally why you've decided to take another offer. That could be based on a better summer schedule, or maybe a more robust practice area in an area you think interests you, or even a personal connection and relationship with one of the people you met at the other firm. How you navigate saying no will ultimately leave open whether the firm thinks you shut them down for a competitor or if you just took another opportunity that you can explain later when deciding to apply elsewhere.
Finally, if you're blessed with several opportunities, you can at least ask whether they are open to splitting the summer. Your best bet is to not shut out either firm, spending half of the summer with each. That way you could have multiple return offers at two firms that interest you without shutting yourself out from those firms. If you have multiple offers, a split summer as a rising 2L is kind of your ideal scenario.
I'm happy to expand on anything here, but if you've gotten multiple 1L SA offers in the market you want, you're already in a remarkable spot. Focus on getting a return offer above all. Going into 2L OCI with a return offer is the easiest way to defray the stress of getting anything at OCI.